Valves for smelting operations

[JFriis]

Any reason, other than expense, not to use a high temp valve as listed below?

Ball Valve suits high-temperature applications.

March 25, 2003 - Offered in standard 316SS and carbon steel, MS3K Series is also available in alloy materials such as Hastelloy B and C, Monel, Alloy 20, and Titanium. Marwinite seats withstand temperatures to 1000°F and suit clean, wet saturated, and superheated steam. Optional Mar-Wear seats are supplied in Class IV or Class VI shutoff. Capable of handling slurries and viscous fluids, valve is available in ¼-2 in. sizes for pressures to 750 psi.

[Bill*]

first problem I see is it would have to be kept from "freezing" as it would have to be outside the heat source to be accessable to the person doing the smelting

[Onlymenotu]

umm why not just use a LEE 20 lber spout on you smelter?my search for the post & Texasflyboy homemade pot

[KYCaster]

When I built a smelting pot, I was pretty much limited to what I could find in the junk box in the shop.

The first valve I tried was a tapered plug gas valve...didn't work for crap!! It had a cast iron body and a brass plug and I suppose the different expansion ratios of the metals caused it to bind so it wouldn't turn.

Back to the junk box...gate valves looked good. I had the choice of rising stem or non-rising stem. I chose the rising stem cause it would keep the handle and stem threads a little further from the heat. It worked fine.

Bill*'s concern about the valve freezing is a valid point. Any valve outside the heat is going to freeze. About thirty seconds with a torch will take care of that problem.

I'm not familiar with the valves you describe, but I don't see any reason why they won't work...just sound kinda expensive.

Keep us posted on your progress and let us know how it works out.

Jerry

[Alasgun]

I recently built a 100 pounder to process WW. A 5 gallon bucket of WW weighs 130 lbs roughly, my "processor" will hold 97 lbs!! A full gallon. It too is made from things left over, like the 06 barrel that was made into the pour handle.

Anyway getting back to the valve. I simply machined a 3/4 hole in the bottom of the pot and built a fitting with a head on one end and threads under the shoulder. It went thru the bottom of the pot and has a nut on the other side. The top side of the head has a thru hole that looks like the fitting on my 20 lb pot which is simply a tapered plug. It works flawlessly. Lead is 11 times denser than water, you dont need much to contain it! Oh yea, I made those downriggers in the back ground as well.
Mike

[JFriis]

Keep us posted on your progress and let us know how it works out.

Jerry

Wll do. Still working through ideas on what to try.

[BigBlack]

Here is what I did to make a bottom pour valve for my smelting pot. Sorry I did not take any pictures of the valve while I built it but I will try to explain as detailed as I can.

1. Start out with a piece of 1"x2"x2" solid square steal stock.
2. Drill a 1/2" hole all the way though it side to side (the 1" edges are the ends and top and bottom, the 2" edges are not drilled through)
3. Now drill a crossing hole from top to bottom the sized .2570 or size "F"
4. Now from the top drill the size "F" hole out to 7/16" but stop when you reach the bottom of the crossing 1/2" hole
5. Tap the bottom half of the size "F" hole out to 5/16"
6. Counter sink the top 7/16" hole
7. weld up one end of the 1/2" crossing hole
8. weld a long 1/4" rod to the top of a 5/16 counter sink bolt (this will be your valve)

You crack open the bolt to let lead flow and screw it down to stop the flow. The lead flows around the bolt down to the 1/2" hole and then out the none welded up end. You have to cut a hole in the bottom of your pot for this valve. I bent a "L" shape in the end of the 1/4" rod so I could open and close it without vise grips.

Mine works like a champ, one design change I will make once I get another pot. In mine I cut a hole in the side of my pot and welded the valve in the bottom with it sticking out the side just a little. This always leaves about 2" of lead in the pot. Next time I will cut a round hole in the bottom big enough for the bolt head to pass through and just weld my valve on the bottom. This way I can empty the pot.

trying to help describe so I sketched a diagram

In the picture I welded up the left side and the threaded bottom with the bolt screwed in keeys lead from flowing out that hole

[JFriis]

Here is what I did to make a bottom pour valve for my smelting pot. Sorry I did not take any pictures of the valve while I built it but I will try to explain as detailed as I can.

1. Start out with a piece of 1"x2"x2" solid square steal stock.
2. Drill a 1/2" hole all the way though it side to side (the 1" edges are the ends and top and bottom, the 2" edges are not drilled through)
3. Now drill a crossing hole from top to bottom the sized .2570 or size "F"
4. Now from the top drill the size "F" hole out to 7/16" but stop when you reach the bottom of the crossing 1/2" hole
5. Tap the bottom half of the size "F" hole out to 5/16"
6. Counter sink the top 7/16" hole
7. weld up one end of the 1/2" crossing hole
8. weld a long 1/4" rod to the top of a 5/16 counter sink bolt (this will be your valve)

You crack open the bolt to let lead flow and screw it down to stop the flow. The lead flows around the bolt down to the 1/2" hole and then out the none welded up end. You have to cut a hole in the bottom of your pot for this valve. I bent a "L" shape in the end of the 1/4" rod so I could open and close it without vise grips.

Mine works like a champ, one design change I will make once I get another pot. In mine I cut a hole in the side of my pot and welded the valve in the bottom with it sticking out the side just a little. This always leaves about 2" of lead in the pot. Next time I will cut a round hole in the bottom big enough for the bolt head to pass through and just weld my valve on the bottom. This way I can empty the pot.

trying to help describe so I sketched a diagram

In the picture I welded up the left side and the threaded bottom with the bolt screwed in keeys lead from flowing out that hole

Looks interesting.
Would you be willing to take a picture or two of your completed pot?

[BigBlack]

will take some pics tomorrow

[shotman]

make it like the bottom pour pots. easy and they work.

[BigBlack]

As promised

Assembled


With valve out


Valve


Outside



Inside



Open


Closed

[kendall yates]

Hey Paul, that is a very nice job. PM sent

[briang]

Something I learned today, do not use a gate type water value. The threads on the screw that lifts the gate striped with the valve open, thereby draining my pot onto the ground. The ground was wet and the lead was bubbling making all kinds of scary sounds, so I wasn't about to hang around and try to stop the flow. I can only assume the heat made the brass weak and easier to strip the threads out. Back to the drawing broad.

[No_1]

Excellent work Paul! This is the simplest idea I have seen yet for a smelting pot. Very basic, common parts, easy to clean, heavy duty. I do agree with the idea on putting the spout on the bottom. I think the only thing I would add to your design change would be a length of drain pipe from the bottom of the valve that way you can just slide the ingot mould under the burner to fill them and the heat from the burner keeps the pipe from freezing.

Thanks for sharing,

Robert

[BigBlack]

I thought about the pipe and may do it eventually. right now I have a piece of angle iron that hangs on the burner that acts like a trough that lets the silver stream flow to the ingoits.

[BigBlack]

I had a couple ask me and I can build the block for you, you would have to get yourself a pot and have someone weld the valve in. I can drill and tap the block and provide the bolt. You would need to provide the pot and rod to make a handle on the bolt. I am checking tomorrow for raw material prices and then will get back here with a price.

One thing I do which I didn't do last time as you can see is take the bolt out of the block and soak it all down with wd-40 to keep it from seizing and rusting.

Ya'll let me know if you want a "valve"

[JFriis]

I had a couple ask me and I can build the block for you, you would have to get yourself a pot and have someone weld the valve in. I can drill and tap the block and provide the bolt. You would need to provide the pot and rod to make a handle on the bolt. I am checking tomorrow for raw material prices and then will get back here with a price.

One thing I do which I didn't do last time as you can see is take the bolt out of the block and soak it all down with wd-40 to keep it from seizing and rusting.

Ya'll let me know if you want a "valve"

That is a very well done set up!
PM a price on your 'valve block' please.

Thanks!

[Ithaca1911]

please pm with price for that valve block. looking for 2 if they're reasonable.

[BigBlack]

okay I can do them $25.00 shipped per valve. Please send US Postal money order to

Paul Graham
332 Dees RD
Lyons GA 30436

I will make them up and send them out as I recieve money orders. I will provide USPS confirmation number as I ship them.

I am leaving Monday for vaction and will be back in a week. When I get back I will make up any that I have got money for.

Time is the biggest thing, the raw materials are not that much.

What you get for your $25, is a 1"x2" round bar block drilled and tapped and the needed counter sync bolt. I decided to use round bar as it will be easier to install in your pot, just simply drill a 1/2 hole in the bottom. This is actually how I will do my next pot as well, I want the spot on the outside so I do not leave 2" of lead in the pot. I will add a piece of 1/4" angle to the bottom for a spout.

What you will need to do when you get it, is cut pot to accept valve and weld it in. You will also need a piece of 1/4" steel rod to weld to the top of the bolt so you can make a handle to turn it on and off.

[inuhbad]

VERY nice ideas in this thread.