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Thread: Forming .30 BR

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Forming .30 BR

    As some of you know, I am in the midst of a project that started with a $30 barrel (.30 BR, 1:17" twist) for a Savage. I said to myself, "I can play with this for very little money" and "It'll be cheap, Savages are a dime a dozen". Lies, nothing but lies.

    It is tough when you realize that you have lied to yourself.

    I think I am somewhere close to a grand right now, and still don't have a set of dies for it. A slight modification to set of Lyman 310 dies in .308 Winchester allows me to load for it. Desperately need a stock, and probably a trigger to see its full potential. (A better shooter wouldn't hurt either).

    Anyway to the point of this post: Necking either 6mm BR, 6mm BR Norma, or 7mm BR up to .30. The internet tells you to use either a stepped or tapered expander, and that is probably the best. I went a different way (remember cheap project). The expander button from an RCBS die set in .308 just splits case necks. What I found works is a Lyman 30 Short M die ($5 at a local gunshow).

    So far I have done 101 Remington 7mmBR cases and only lost one. If I had been looking closely, I doubt I would have crunched that one, some of the case necks needed rounding out before expanding. I must have missed one.

    It also works for the 6mm cases with a lot of care. If I were to try another batch of 6mm brass, I would put a bit more taper on the leading point of the expander plug.

    Anyway, even if it has cost more cash than I originally planned, I am having loads of fun trying things out.

    Robert

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Your having fun. Necking up is easier than down. Watch your neck wall thickness when forming brass it should thin some .

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    With the 6mm cases, did you go up incrementally? 6 to 6.5, 6.5 to 7mm on up or just 6mm straight to 30 caliber? That's a big jump.

    New brass or well used? It may have been too hard. A LIGHT annealing may have helped.

    How did you get a $1000 into a rifle build with no stock, no dies and no high buck trigger?

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Your having fun. Necking up is easier than down. Watch your neck wall thickness when forming brass it should thin some .
    I've been checking neck wall thickness with a Lyman labelled ball micrometer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    With the 6mm cases, did you go up incrementally? 6 to 6.5, 6.5 to 7mm on up or just 6mm straight to 30 caliber? That's a big jump.

    New brass or well used? It may have been too hard. A LIGHT annealing may have helped.

    How did you get a $1000 into a rifle build with no stock, no dies and no high buck trigger?
    It has been so long since I did the 6mm brass that I really don't remember, I'm halfway sure I tried a few methods.

    The 6mm brass was well used for sure. The 7mm, most of it looks new, but it is still getting pretty long in the tooth. I also bought five boxes of BR basic brass that I will need a form die for, but that will wait a while.

    Buying a donor rifle when bidenomics was in full swing was a large part, two or three base and ring combos to figure out what works for me; a Lyman LWBR scope that separated the objective lens replaced by a Weaver T-25, boxes of red coated pretender projectiles, powder and primers.

    I haven't added it all up to the penny, but it is a long way from the $30 starting point. Seems like there was another scope purchased, but it went on another rifle so my WAG at the costs is probably way off.

    Before I started this I saw Savage 110's everywhere. Once I wanted to buy one again, they dried up fast.

    Like I said I am having fun so I'm really not griping (much) about how much I am spending.

    If I don't include components and parts not actually used, the costs come way down. I still spent the money though.

    Robert

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    With the 6mm cases, did you go up incrementally? 6 to 6.5, 6.5 to 7mm on up or just 6mm straight to 30 caliber? That's a big jump.

    New brass or well used? It may have been too hard. A LIGHT annealing may have helped.

    How did you get a $1000 into a rifle build with no stock, no dies and no high buck trigger?
    It is easy to put $1000 into just a scope for a benchrest rifle.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I make my 30 BR brass from 300 Savage, dies and instructions came with the rifle.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    LOL I almost got sucked into a .30BR for one of my Savages too Then I started looking for a donor rifle and found the HOWA barreled actions. Am trying to burn out the 6.5CM barrel so I can put something else on it (not sure what yet).

    FWIW, when I was investigating this I got out some of my old 6BR brass (Lapua) and a tapered expander for a Lee .308 size die. Had to cut if off part of the expander to make it short enough, but, it enlarged the necks nicely. I did 10 without an issue before I quit. They had almost 20 reloads on them and had never been annealed. If I did it again I'd probably anneal them just to avoid any split necks.

    May never get a 30BR but at least I know it can be done.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    So far it has been a bunch of fun, and I am learning a lot. Would I do it again? Not on a Savage 110. A shortened Mauser 98 on the other hand, has potential.

    The most annoying thing is that the very short cases don't play well with a spring loaded ejector. I am not the first to figure this out, Ken Water's discovered the same thing in his report on the .308x1.5" Barnes. There went my plans for an off the wall coyote rifle. It will feed and extract, but only ejects about half the time.

    I'll play with it until it gets boring, then put another barrel on the rifle.

    Robert

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I will someday build a 30ish BR, I have been collecting pieces for some time now. Mine will not be a BR rifle, it will be a subsonic suppressed rifle using the 30 BR case to allow for a little extra case cap to make some super sonic loads that have some killing power. I used a form die that belonged to a friend that pushed the shoulder of 308 win brass way back. I have about 110 lake city 308s with necks about 1.25 inches long. Green Mountain 1in 8 30 caliber barrel and a hand made wood stock.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I will someday build a 30 BRish rifle, I have been collecting pieces for some time now. Mine will not be a BR rifle, it will be a subsonic suppressed rifle using the 30 BR case to allow for a little extra case cap to make some super sonic loads that have some killing power. I used a form die that belonged to a friend that pushed the shoulder of 308 win brass way back. I have about 110 lake city 308s with necks about 1.25 inches long. Green Mountain 1in 8 30 caliber barrel and a handmade wood stock. I have a Mauser action and an Arisaka, or could find something else in time that is more modern.

  11. #11
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    What specifically is the problem with the spring loaded ejector?
    Is the short case getting turned sideways in the action as soon as it clears the locking lugs and not getting tossed out?
    I wonder if a much lighter ejector spring would help?
    A replacement spring should be available and fairly cheap? Buy 3 and try clipping one down a turn at a time and trying it? If it doesn't work, you can always put the original back in. Is it just one roll pin the the bolt head that holds it in place?
    Just thoughts.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    What specifically is the problem with the spring loaded ejector?
    Is the short case getting turned sideways in the action as soon as it clears the locking lugs and not getting tossed out?

    You guessed it. As soon as the shoulder clears the chamber the ejector is tilting the case to the right. It doesn't take a whole lot of tilt with the 1½" (or so) case to get it to fall off the extractor
    I wonder if a much lighter ejector spring would help?
    Maybe, I have read of people taking the ejector completely out of Savages and just reaching in to grab the case, but I would kind of like a repeating action to repeat on demand. It really doesn't matter if I work the bolt slow or fast, but it has gotten to the point that I am surprised when the empty case goes flying out.
    A replacement spring should be available and fairly cheap? Buy 3 and try clipping one down a turn at a time and trying it? If it doesn't work, you can always put the original back in. Is it just one roll pin the the bolt head that holds it in place?

    I may do that once the weather warms up; it is a bit cold snowy and wet for me to enjoy range time right now.
    Just thoughts.
    I did figure out an easy way to remove the ejector retaining pin though. Instead of the commonly recommended push the ejector in and hold it while pushing the pin out method that usually takes three hands, my method uses an empty case that fits the bolt head and one of the new style clamps that work like a caulking gun.

    I use a .45 ACP case, but anything that fits the boltface should work. When disassembling the bolt once you get to the hold the ejector in step put the case and clamp on and tighten it enough that the pin is loose.

    It is easier to do than tell how its done.

    Robert

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    "A shortened Mauser 98 on the other hand, has potential."

    Just some input in case you need another fun money sink. You can put a savage bolt head on a Mauser bolt. I know, because I've done it. I saw a thread on a gunsmithing forum many years ago where a guy with some talent swapped the bolt head on a 98 Mauser to convert it to push feed. I used the same process to convert a 1893 small ring Mauser to 7mm TCU. I used a 223 Savage bolt head and a bolt head parts kit from Gun Shack. If you type in "aftermarket Savage 110 bolt heads" You'll find more that half a dozen vendors offering left or right hand bolt heads in a multitude of bolt face diameters.

    If you're going to put a Savage bolt head on a Mauser bolt (shortened or otherwise) You need to cut the head off the Mauser bolt at exactly the surface of the rear of the bolt lugs. Then drill out the front of the bolt body so that the "stem" on the 110 bolt will fit inside it. Next, mark the position and drill the hole for the Savage cross bolt that retains the bolt head. This will be a 1/4" hole, and it's usually right in the center of the groove for the extractor band on a Mauser bolt. You'll need to make a new firing pin tip that will go through the cross bolt hole. Instead of turning down the Mauser firing pin, what I did was to cut away the firing pin ahead of the spring seat. I then drilled and tapped into the Mauser firing pin with a 10-32 tap. Next I took a long grade eight 10-32 bolt and turned this to make the new firing pin tip. This new tip is screwed into the Mauser firing pin shank and held in place with red loctite and a lock nut.

    A problem that I encountered with this design was that the cross bolt would try to rotate during use, and the firing pin tip would then strike against the side of it's thru hole. This would sap some of the firing pin springs energy and would cause some light strikes on the primers. Because the cross pin is located in the groove where the extractor collar used to be, (on a full length bolt), the ends of the cross pin can be below the surface level of the bolt body. To fix the rotating pin problem I set the pin in it's proper position, then TIG welded a bead on one end of the pin that fused it to the bolt body. Now the pin cannot rotate.

    If you choose to, you can do this modification on any large ring 98 or Swedish Mauser, and convert it to a push feed action in almost any caliber that you want. The small ring 93 thru 95 Mauser's have a guide rib in the left hand raceway that needs to be ground out for a Savage bolt head to work. As with anything there are always caveats. The thumb cut in the left side of most small ring Mauser receivers is problematic. The Swedish Mauser and 98 Mausers have a guide rib that's part of the rear bridge, and the 1895 Chilean Mauser (and a few other small rings) doesn't have the thumb cut. If you convert a small ring action with the thumb cut to use a Savage bolt head there will be no support keeping the front of the bolt from lifting and rotating from the upward force of the follower when the bolt is pulled all the way back. This will jam the action. For this reason, small rings with the thumb cut can only be used as single shots if a Savage bolt head is installed.

    So, if you're going to go to the time and expense of building a shortened Mauser, using a Savage 110 bolt head to convert it to push feed is another option to help put your wallet on a diet.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check