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Thread: Tin and antimony alloy?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Tin and antimony alloy?

    Anyone ever tried alloying tin and antimony without any lead?

    I know that antimony will NOT alloy with lead like the rotometals superhard just has micro crystals of pure antimony surrounded by pure lead till you add tin to the mix. Tin will dissolve antimony in lead but what if there was no lead?
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    Boolit Buddy
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    Sounds expensive.......

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    Don’t know why ya would want to. For my the cost alone would be way beyond my reach. Besides the fact that the bullet would be way too hard I would think for any practical use. In addition antimony will definitely alloy with lead. It’s just an involve process doing it. It’s not just like sticking it in and melting it all together and mixing it up but it’s not ridiculously difficult. Honestly, I just use pewter and Lino alloy with my will weight alloy when I need a harder bullet like Lyman #2. I’ve certainly never had the need for anything as hard as pure, antimony and tin. I’m curious as to whether or not anyone else chimes in with a actual BHN of what that would be.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    Don’t know why ya would want to. For my the cost alone would be way beyond my reach. Besides the fact that the bullet would be way too hard I would think for any practical use. In addition antimony will definitely alloy with lead. It’s just an involve process doing it. It’s not just like sticking it in and melting it all together and mixing it up but it’s not ridiculously difficult. Honestly, I just use pewter and Lino alloy with my will weight alloy when I need a harder bullet like Lyman #2. I’ve certainly never had the need for anything as hard as pure, antimony and tin. I’m curious as to whether or not anyone else chimes in with a actual BHN of what that would be.
    Simplification. A pre mixed custom alloy that you know a simple formula like add 1 pound of sweet stuff to 10 (whatever) pounds lead to get your desired casting alloy.

    And you are wrong about " In addition antimony will definitely alloy with lead" All you get is a mixture not an alloy. Melting antimony requires about 1100 degrees but it will dissolve in a tin/lead alloy at fairly low temperatures. It will not dissolve into pure lead.

    You can stir salt into dirt but it is not dissolved till you add water. Tin to antimony is like water to salt.
    Last edited by lwknight; 02-02-2025 at 07:11 PM.
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    Boolit Master
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    equal amounts of antimony (Sb) and tin (Sn) form a compound of one atom each (SbSn) that does dissolve in lead-- but I don't know if you can form that compound without it being in lead to begin with.
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    Yah, don't EVEN try this... It led, serendipitously, to a very notable medicinal discovery, but you really, REALLY don't want to know how....
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    Boolit Master
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    Hick, SN can alloy 3 times its mass in SB in low concentrations in a tertiary lead alloy but I have no idea what happens without lead in the mix

    It appears that I'm going to have to test it out myself. So the million dollar question is: How much antimony can a pound of tin amalgamate? LOL!
    EDIT: Well,, duh. I'm an idiot! Pewter and tin solder have antimony in them although it is low percentages of antimony. But the question remains.
    Last edited by lwknight; 02-03-2025 at 12:34 AM.
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    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    Yah, don't EVEN try this... It led, serendipitously, to a very notable medicinal discovery, but you really, REALLY don't want to know how....
    I have the knowings of a great many things but, the words you speak are not part of them. ??
    They tried antimony for treating parasites but it often dispatched the patient so it was stopped.
    Last edited by lwknight; 02-03-2025 at 12:27 AM.
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    Boolit Master
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    Good question and could be an interesting hypothetical discussion....... but just buy some scrap monotype for $2 a pound and be done. It is already at a perfect tin / antimony ratio, easily melts, and is a fraction of the price of what you are proposing.

  10. #10
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    I already have hundreds of pounds of linotype and a couple hundred pounds of monotype. Also a goodly amount of tin and rotometals superhard.
    I just want to find out what the limits are and what benefits can be realized from thinking out of the traditional paradigms.
    Imagine that you could just add 4 pounds of ( I'll call it " supersweet" ) 25-75 to 46 pounds of lead and get 50 pounds of perfect hardball 2-6-92 alloy. Wouldn't that be nice and simple?

    I already use a pre mix of 1 tin to 10 roto metals superhard to get 9-27-63 ( basically monotype ) then later on I can add 1 pound to 4.5 pounds of lead to get 2-6-92 bnh 15 hardball. Super simple to mix in a casting pot.
    Last edited by lwknight; 02-03-2025 at 02:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwknight View Post
    I have the knowings of a great many things but, the words you speak are not part of them. ??
    They tried antimony for treating parasites but it often dispatched the patient so it was stopped.
    Sounds to me as if the treatment was successful, as it DID take care of the parasites...
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwknight View Post
    Anyone ever tried alloying tin and antimony without any lead?

    I know that antimony will NOT alloy with lead like the rotometals superhard just has micro crystals of pure antimony surrounded by pure lead till you add tin to the mix. Tin will dissolve antimony in lead but what if there was no lead?
    What you are talking about is pewter. Pewter is a malleable metal alloy consisting of tin (85–93%), antimony (approximately 5–10%), copper (2%). Sometimes there are other ingredients but that is your basic lead-free pewter. Or tin babbitt, Tin babbitts are composed of 80 to 90% tin, with about 3 to 8% copper and 4 to 14% antimony added. An increase in the copper or antimony increases hardness and tensile strength and decreases ductility.

    You are a little off on your terminology. You mean antimony will not bond to lead not will not alloy with lead. It is normal even necessary for some alloys to have interstitial crystal inclusions. High carbon steel is a great example of this the carbon does not join with the iron. High antimony content in a lead alloy will form these crystals as only a small amount of antimony will bond with the lead at the atomic level.

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    This all seems a waste of effort to me.
    If you’re buying foundry-grade then just buy what you need, no reason to make intermediate alloys.
    If you’re collecting as most of us do, then you’ll rarely have exactly the base you need when you have a particular intermediate alloy.
    My solution is to mix what I want in 200-250 lb batches. Even when I screw up, for example I made a batch of 92-2-6 when I wanted 96-2-2,I can easily adjust in the casting pot.

  14. #14
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    I made something like what you are referring to, except I made a blend of 50/50 rad solder and pure antimony at a 1:1 ratio. I used a vevor smelter to completely melt the antimony first and then added the rad solder. it must be stated that the rad solder was in ingot form and I "cooked" them for 20 minutes in an old pot on a hot plate to drive any moisture out before I added them to the molten antimony. can't imagine peeling that mixture off my chin if it goes sideways. so now I have 25/25/50 Pb/Sn/Sb. it's easy to calculate how much to add to ww alloy or pure lead to get a blend for whatever I want to cast. the blended ingots melt easily in a standard lyman 20 pound pot.

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    Everyone wants to build a better mousetrap. The best ranges for boolit alloy have been pretty much determined. However, it’s always fun to experiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    Yah, don't EVEN try this... It led, serendipitously, to a very notable medicinal discovery, but you really, REALLY don't want to know how....
    Yeah, THIS!!

    If perhaps what you are thinking about is having something on hand that you can simply add to some pure lead or reclaimed scrap lead you have come across,...what would be simpler is to have a foundry blended alloy to which you can add your sourced lead to arrive at your preferred hardness. For instance, if your ultimate target mix is "hardball" like most commercial casters use (92% Lead - 6% Antimony - 2%Tin), you could buy an alloy of 84/12/4, which when added 1-to-1 with your pure lead would blend to be the "hardball" you're looking for. Likewise, if you commissioned a blend of 76/18/6, then your mixing ratio would be 2-to-1;...two ingots of pure lead to one of your specially made alloy. This would only really serve you if you had a source for the reclaimed scrap lead that was sooooo cheap or nearly free as to make the hassle worth your while. Like getting sailboat ballasts for free from hurricane hurled craft deposited inland, or such things.

    The foundries have the protective gear and breathing apparatuses to deal with metals that are problematic, so let them deal with it.
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  17. #17
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    The closest I’ve come to doing something like this was to make an alloy of 3% sb, with the rest mostly tin and some lead.

    I did this because I use a lot of 95-3-2 Pb-Sb-Sn, and my basic starting metals are scrap isotope containers containing Sb, and pewter (both analyzed for exact content), and Superhard from RotoMetals. My preferred method is to calculate how much Superhard to add to the lead to get to 3% Sb, and then figure out the amount of pewter to get 2% Sn. If the tin source has been made up to 3% Sb already, adding the tin won’t alter the 3% Sb in the rest of the alloy, so the alloy will be as close as the xrf measurements, my calculations and weighing out can make them.

    Probably more effort than most want or need to put out, but it scratches my particular itches.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    My whole idea was 2 fold.
    1. The simplicity of only 2 parts to mix in the casting pot.
    2. Reduced volume of the precious metals like tin and antimony are around $25.00 to $30.00 per pound to keep that in a safe place. Removing lead completely would lower the weight and volume by 60 percent or so. I'm going to try it regardless of the nay sayers lack of understanding my quest to learn and do something different. Most of these guys here are scrap scroungers and could not imagine spending a few dollars for alloy but I'm in a different position and the math required to mix custom alloys for casting is super simple for me. Most of all, I enjoy it.
    I like the idea of simplicity of adding 1 part to say 10 parts lead for the desired ratio of everything. So yeah, I'm crazy that way doing more work to make easier work.
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    Well be sure to keep us updated. Lol.

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    If you are talking about using pure Antimony and pure Tin, I think the fly in the ointment is the vast difference in melt temp. 1,167°F vs 449ºF
    .
    I recall the ideal temperature for molten Lead/Tin to absorb Antimony is around 600 to 650 and it takes a long time, like hours, depending on concentration that you want. I assume pure Tin will absorb pure Antimony at same Temp range. Running pure Tin at that temperature for hours, will create a lot of dross/oxides, unless you are doing this is a oxygen free environment.
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