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Thread: Inline culture

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


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    Ignorance can be eradicated threw education, But there is truly no fix for stupid!

    The " Inline Muzzleloader is not a new design! No, Tony Knight, wasn't the creator of the first inline.

    I hunted for many years with an Under hammer of the Hopkins & Allen design mane by Numurec arms, the Offhand model, was gifted it in 77. I actually shot that barrel out. It currently carries a 58 barrel of 26" that I fit to that action.

    When, Black Powder Industries brought their Beartooth magnum for $129.00 I figured I would try this Inline ML thingy. I bought one in 50 cal and and shot that barrel out quicker than my Offhand barrel, 4 breech plugs later and less than 1400 Rem 209-410 primers and lots of REAL Boolitz and Maxies and any resemblance of acracy was gone, so was the rifling. The break open action is now the Base of a Rook Rifle I built. Heck the in reality my Inline action really is very little difference from my under hammer, one put thr fire directly in from underneath verses from the back.

    This entire thread reminds me of the the Ignorance of conversations, when compound bows hit the market, LOL!! Yes, I had the pleasure of hunting with Bill Wadsworth and holding , admiring, the proto type of the Oneida Eagle compound Bow. United we stand strong, Divided we fall fast!



    First Inline Muzzleloader Patent:

    The first inline muzzleloader patent was issued to Pauley in 1808. This patent was significant as it introduced the first inline action in which the cock of the sidelock was replaced by a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring. Here are some key points about this and related developments:

    Pauley (1808): Pauley invented the first inline action for a muzzleloading firearm, featuring a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring, which replaced the traditional cock of the sidelock.
    Dreyse (1838): Dreyse used Pauley’s inline invention as the basis for his 1838 turnbolt design, which became the Prussian Needlegun of 1848.
    Paul Mauser (1868): Mauser later used the Dreyse needle gun design as a basis for his tumbolt cartridge rifle, which was first patented in the U.S. and adopted by the German military in 1871.
    Tony Knight (1985): Knight designed the Knight MK-85 in 1985, which featured the annular ringed hammer of the Wolverine and the pullcock of the 10-Ring action.
    Doc White (1990): Doc White developed the hardened combination nipple-breechplug used first in the White Super 91, which was a significant advancement in inline muzzleloader design.
    Remington (1996): Remington joined White in 1996, marketing a Mauser analog muzzleloader with their M700ML, which was another notable inline muzzleloader design.
    US Patent 9121661 (2015): This patent, issued in 2015, detailed an inline hammerless percussion firing system for muzzleloader firearms, continuing the evolution of inline muzzleloader technology
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    Great history lesson screwbolts. I’m just west of Cooperstown.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy ttd444's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwbolts View Post
    Ignorance can be eradicated threw education, But there is truly no fix for stupid!

    The " Inline Muzzleloader is not a new design! No, Tony Knight, wasn't the creator of the first inline.

    I hunted for many years with an Under hammer of the Hopkins & Allen design mane by Numurec arms, the Offhand model, was gifted it in 77. I actually shot that barrel out. It currently carries a 58 barrel of 26" that I fit to that action.

    When, Black Powder Industries brought their Beartooth magnum for $129.00 I figured I would try this Inline ML thingy. I bought one in 50 cal and and shot that barrel out quicker than my Offhand barrel, 4 breech plugs later and less than 1400 Rem 209-410 primers and lots of REAL Boolitz and Maxies and any resemblance of acracy was gone, so was the rifling. The break open action is now the Base of a Rook Rifle I built. Heck the in reality my Inline action really is very little difference from my under hammer, one put thr fire directly in from underneath verses from the back.

    This entire thread reminds me of the the Ignorance of conversations, when compound bows hit the market, LOL!! Yes, I had the pleasure of hunting with Bill Wadsworth and holding , admiring, the proto type of the Oneida Eagle compound Bow. United we stand strong, Divided we fall fast!



    First Inline Muzzleloader Patent:

    The first inline muzzleloader patent was issued to Pauley in 1808. This patent was significant as it introduced the first inline action in which the cock of the sidelock was replaced by a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring. Here are some key points about this and related developments:

    Pauley (1808): Pauley invented the first inline action for a muzzleloading firearm, featuring a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring, which replaced the traditional cock of the sidelock.
    Dreyse (1838): Dreyse used Pauley’s inline invention as the basis for his 1838 turnbolt design, which became the Prussian Needlegun of 1848.
    Paul Mauser (1868): Mauser later used the Dreyse needle gun design as a basis for his tumbolt cartridge rifle, which was first patented in the U.S. and adopted by the German military in 1871.
    Tony Knight (1985): Knight designed the Knight MK-85 in 1985, which featured the annular ringed hammer of the Wolverine and the pullcock of the 10-Ring action.
    Doc White (1990): Doc White developed the hardened combination nipple-breechplug used first in the White Super 91, which was a significant advancement in inline muzzleloader design.
    Remington (1996): Remington joined White in 1996, marketing a Mauser analog muzzleloader with their M700ML, which was another notable inline muzzleloader design.
    US Patent 9121661 (2015): This patent, issued in 2015, detailed an inline hammerless percussion firing system for muzzleloader firearms, continuing the evolution of inline muzzleloader technology

    who said that about Knight? wasn't me. i don't think anybody else said that Knight was responsible for the modern inline.

    i might take the flintlock this deer rifle season. i don't know, it could even be a 10" Contender in 30 Herrett.

    as far as compound archery is not a primitive weapon. in my little world, i would let compounds/crossbows and percussion/inline hunt for one week. flintlock, recurve and long bows are 8 weeks before and 4 weeks after the PA gun season. but that's just little old me.
    Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".

    US Army 12B & 51B

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
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    It's gratifying to have a tinkerer sub-culture here at CastBoolits. Goes hand in hand with making your own cast bolts. Have quite a few stories about my own tinkering and the fact that the capabilities of any firearm far exceeds the set - over the counter - limits expected from a commercially produced gun. Reloaders often get performance from "production" guns the market never even considers. Not just making 'em faster, louder, or more powerful, but making 'em do more with cast than the original jacketed will do. My .38-55 is a miracle machine pushing a 235 cast boolit at 1500 FPS when compared to my 150 grain jacketed .30-30. They both work fine but my powers of description aren't up to making the distinction. My favorite is a T/C Impact (in-line .50) that arrived at my door with a roached out barrel. Took it over to Bobby Hoyt for a re-bore to .54 1/60. Now I have a marvelously accurate in-line .54 round baller. My favorite hunter. The fun never stops.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master


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    I'm sure at one time there were shooters who were against the new fangled matchlocks because they were too complicated, required a match/fuse/cord to be provided, and were not in the spirit of touching a fire stick to the hole.......
    Don't get angry when I post something you don't like 'cause I'm just some anonymous nobody connected by electrons. One click and I'm gone.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by K43 View Post
    I'm sure at one time there were shooters who were against the new fangled matchlocks because they were too complicated, required a match/fuse/cord to be provided, and were not in the spirit of touching a fire stick to the hole.......
    I live in a country where there is no advantage at all to be had with an inline (so called muzzleloader) necessity being the mother of invention these things were initially spawned as a way for a certain group of "hunters" (so called) to cheat the system - getting a leg up over their traditional friends with what was essentially a modern, scope sighted, high power firearm ......I reckon that all brings along some questionable ethics .........maybe not the case anymore ? people say too many deer now so if thats the case none of this matters .
    Still -- if there is a muzzle loader season I give the points to the guys shooting something that has its roots in the traditionl era and more to the point looks like it belongs there.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    My first muzzle loader was an H&R Hunter in 45cal. I bought it in the early 70s on sale new for $49 I shoots the TC maxi ball I to 3 to 4in @ 100yds. Since then I have picked up a Thompson with 2 32cal barrels, a flint and a cap barrel with both locks, 2 CVAs one 50 and one 54 and the parts for a rifled 69cal that I still need to put together.

    I did figure out that a 28ga shotgun wad fits the 54cal gun perfectly and can be used with a 50 cal ball. I fill the cushion part of the wad with grease insert a ball and carry them in pill bottles as well as pill bottles with the proper charge of powder. It makes for a fairly fast reload.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy kaiser's Avatar
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    I've lived in many different states during my years in the service where all had so many different laws regarding shotguns, rifles, and pistols that you needed an interpreter to decipher what was legal. One state requiring shotguns only, while allowing Black Powder firearms. I found Muzzle loaders slower, but more accurate than most shotguns offered at the time. I bought a used a T/C Hawkin .50, which was excellent for the task. One state I lived in allowed rifle calibers, but in only designated counties - good luck getting permission to hunt from most of them! Another allowed shotguns with "buck shot"; another only allowed shotguns shooting slugs. The point is, if you like to hunt and remain within the law you will pick the firearm that is legal to use; you shoot the best, while giving you the satisfaction of the hunt. While I now live in a state that allows every variant of firearms, including black powder inlines with scopes for deer season, I find a unique satisfaction of using my old T/C .50 cal during the "alternate methods" season most of the time. I still don't need a scope, but when that time comes, I do have an "Inline" to fulfill that "role".
    I think choices of firearms are a freedom we enjoy, if we can increase our population of "hunters" and shooters over the percentage of the population who want to take guns away - there is no contest. People not serious about a "hobby/sport" of muzzle loading will soon tire of taking the time to learn the all the interesting sidelines of the hobby; however, it is still likely that same person has interest in keeping our 2nd Amendment rights! I seldom go to rendezvous, or make any of my accessories; however, I do cast my own bullets and am learning to make percussion caps and powder from fellow Cast Boolits bloggers. Like other of our groups, I'm glad we have a diversity among our shooting fraternity. "Party on, Garth!"

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I have a couple of inlines and although they shoot accurately, I just never was a fan of sabots and pellets. Tried PRB's but the rifling is so thin they do not work for me either.

    To circumvent that, I sent a Knight barrelled action to Bobby Hoyt to have relined with a .40 caliber low twist PRB barrel. That'll give me the accuracy of using a scope and the ease of shooting PRB's.
    If you are going to make a hole in something. MAKE IT A BIG ONE!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    I've lived in many different states during my years in the service where all had so many different laws regarding shotguns, rifles, and pistols that you needed an interpreter to decipher what was legal. One state requiring shotguns only, while allowing Black Powder firearms. I found Muzzle loaders slower, but more accurate than most shotguns offered at the time. I bought a used a T/C Hawkin .50, which was excellent for the task. One state I lived in allowed rifle calibers, but in only designated counties - good luck getting permission to hunt from most of them! Another allowed shotguns with "buck shot"; another only allowed shotguns shooting slugs. The point is, if you like to hunt and remain within the law you will pick the firearm that is legal to use; you shoot the best, while giving you the satisfaction of the hunt. While I now live in a state that allows every variant of firearms, including black powder inlines with scopes for deer season, I find a unique satisfaction of using my old T/C .50 cal during the "alternate methods" season most of the time. I still don't need a scope, but when that time comes, I do have an "Inline" to fulfill that "role".
    I think choices of firearms are a freedom we enjoy, if we can increase our population of "hunters" and shooters over the percentage of the population who want to take guns away - there is no contest. People not serious about a "hobby/sport" of muzzle loading will soon tire of taking the time to learn the all the interesting sidelines of the hobby; however, it is still likely that same person has interest in keeping our 2nd Amendment rights! I seldom go to rendezvous, or make any of my accessories; however, I do cast my own bullets and am learning to make percussion caps and powder from fellow Cast Boolits bloggers. Like other of our groups, I'm glad we have a diversity among our shooting fraternity. "Party on, Garth!"
    Well said!


    I bought a smokeless muzzle loader. It’s legal here and it allows me to hunt for two full weeks before rifle season begins.

    This past season, I took a doe with a Lee 310 grain boolit I cast from cable sheathing I rendered. The shot was 197 yards. The scope has hold off marks below the main crosshairs. They are needed for shooting a pistol boolit 200 yards.

    It’s the only deer I took this season. I let some small bucks walk during rifle season. All my stands are on the perimeter of bean/corn fields.

    As to the “culture” I’m not into all that. I didn’t even know the rifle was discontinued by the manufacturer before it was too late to buy spare parts. I also had to switch to Vihtavuori N110 powder this year because 5744 is obsolete.

    I’ll enjoy many home cooked meals this year, thanks to my inline and casting equipment!
    “Turn up the heat, and cast cheap!”
    Barry54

  12. #32
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    I stuck with my side hammers , to me when said muzzle loader season . To me it means flint and side hammer. I do cast my bullets and all. Also some on here in the past help me with a major problem I had and thank them again for all their help. Oh I do ball and patch and real bullet and sabot. Depends on what the twist of the rifling is . Also set up to be used.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    I'd say that there are actually a few sects within the Inline population:
    1) Pure season extenders - Follow the strict letter of the law, and no more. Given the option, they'd prefer to ditch muzzleloaders and extend the modern rifle season.
    2) Single shotters - Platform agnostic, but appreciate the one-shot nature of muzzleloaders. Traditionals, in-lines, 700MLs, Handi-Rifles, or any modern cartridge gun are all acceptable so long as it is loaded with just 1 shot (maybe 2 if double barreled).
    3) Modernists - Keep muzzleloaders for muzzleloading's sake, but also keep advancing the technology to whatever end it may take.

    Sidelocks definitely aren't without their cliques. Rock locks vs cap locks. Historic vs ...farbed?
    Last edited by Somebody; 02-03-2025 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #34
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    I am always happy that there is something in this sport/hobby for everyone. To me, I own or shot no muzzleloader blackpowders because Alaska has no separate seasons. If I did, I think I'd have to go traditional with pour from a powder-horn style rather than compressed pre-formed pellets and 209-primers. As said before, it seems most in those areas just want an extended extra season, and I'm okay with that.
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  15. #35
    Boolit Master


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    More shooters equals more better.
    So they're different. Remember the hate for AR15 until one day, POOF! Its "America's Rifle" THE "US sporting Arm".
    Different group not hurting stopping anyone who does it differently so leave them be.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    Our sport and rights are under too much threat for us to fight amongst ourselves. Trad bow v compound v Xbow, rifle v pistol v shotgun, flint v percussion v inline, etc. As long as you are hunting legal and ethical we should encourage all. Our numbers are dwindling to where our power is also diminished.
    “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”

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  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    All good observations folks. Thanks for your opinions and thoughts. Keep 'em coming!
    BTW, I won another auction for a really cheap CVA Optima that looks to be in perfect condition. Guess I'm part of the culture now too. Planning on relining the Wolf to 35 caliber as soon as I can get a liner for it. Got to be different from the crowd I guess.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    The last deer I shot was with an inline that I built myself. I had an old H&R shotgun and a new replacement barrel for a Sharps in 52 caliber. This took place over 40 years back and the hunt was the coldest I have ever been. The bullet mold I had made because I could not buy one at the time. The place was Coeur d'Alene national forest in north Idaho. It was the late winter hunt for muzzle loaders only. Four of us left the truck at first light going up an old logging road that had a gate, so the truck was left behind. It was about 10 degrees and the wind was blowing hard enough that some trees were breaking, sounding like gunshots. We got to a "Y" in the road and split up, two each way. After going about a mile I told the fellow with me that I was to cold to go on and was going back down to the truck and build a fire. He agreed and said he felt the same way so we started back. The wind was in my face so I was looking down. The other guy said "deer" and as I looked up I raise the rifle up to firing position. At about 80 yards there was a buck behind a tree that had fallen across the road. I did not see the deer go down because of the smoke and ask my friend why he didn't take the shot. He had been looking into the wind and his eyes were not clear enough to see his sights. When we got to the tree there were marks in the snow and blood and it looked like the deer went off the road and down the cliff. When I looked over the edge there was the deer hanging on a stump by it's horns and not in the bottom of the canyon like I had feared. We took out belts off and hooked them together, he held one end and I took the other. Over the edge I went, try gutting a deer hanging by it horns while holding on to a belt with one hand. Some how I got the job done and hooked the belt to the deers horns as I made it back to the road. We got the young Mull deer on the road and it was easy to drag it in the light layer of snow on the road until we got to a spot where the snow had been blown off the road by the wind. At this point we both had the horns and started dragging the deer until we had worn about and 8" circle of hide off the deer on the frozen ground that looked like corse sand-paper. We decided to go get the other two for help so left the deer in the road. When we found the other two they had a white tail about 100 yards off the road on the other side of the mountain in about 3' of snow. Me being the smallest, I stayed on the road and the other three wend off the edge and struggle to get the deer up to the road. By this time all of us were tired. We build a travois out of some heavy branches and loaded the deer, then took turns dragging it back to the Y in the road. At this point we built another Travois and went after the deer I had shot. We had started at first light and it was dark by the time we got both deer back to the truck. I had never worked so hard for a piece of meat in my life. While I have been hunting a few times sense then I never have shot another animal. That 52 caliber rifle with a 400 grain bullet had shot through the deer and the bullet had continued on, probably looking for another deer.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy Old Iron Sights's Avatar
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    Ditto HamGunner. I love shooting my flinter and great plains rifle but I now hunt with a scoped inline. Mostly because of my eyesight but that scope just makes good kills much more likely. I've taken many deer with my GPR but those days are about done.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I agree that the popularity of inlines is mostly due to those trying to get around regulations. Too bad for them! They are missing out on all the fun that comes along with traditional muzzle loading.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check