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Thread: Chamber sleeve.

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Chamber sleeve.

    Parts even saying that raise questions for which I don't have answers .

    I have a 92' clone in 45 Colts with a .496 chamber that tapers to .484 at the mouth into a .450 groove .
    It just irritates me no end that it is so hard on the brass , even more so than the BlackHawk companion.

    The barrel is threaded .890-40 or 20×@1.75 if I'm remembering what I read an hour ago right . Reaming the chamber any smaller than .600 will make a paper thin sleeve or precariously thin barrel shank .
    With the insert epoxied in at 1.6-7" and pistol chambered it should remove any blow back issues"under" the liner .

    Writing it out loud makes this sound even more foolish.

    Cons of a rebarrel .
    I have to pay someone to do it .
    I have a bid of just over twice the cost of the carbine.
    It'll take a yr to get it back .
    If I buy a lathe to do it myself....... That's just as bad idea , I'll either be an addict saving money hand over fist or do the 3-4 projects 75% of as nice as a pro , and it'll languish to death .

    Pros .
    The chamber will be right .
    I'll have the 20" short mag "heavy" barrel aesthetic I wanted.
    The 1-32" twist will be replaced with a 1-16" .
    It'll be a correct.452 groove .
    It'll be chamber matched to the BH .
    It'll get rid of the groove dip under the front dove tail.
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  2. #2
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    I'm surprised that a re-barrel job, which is the way I'd go, is that expensive. I think you should shop around.

    As for a sleeve, are you intending to do the work yourself? If you're going to use a gunsmith for that job, I don't see how it can be less expensive than a re-barrel. If you're going to do it yourself, how do you plan to install the sleeve? Silver solder? Won't you need a lathe to make the sleeve, or will you buy one ready made?

    I'm sure that if you look around enough you'll find a good gunsmith who will re-barrel your rifle at a reasonable price.

    DG

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Sleeving chambers, I usually thread the sleeve to make sure it does not back out ( found out years ago that this can happen). Runs about $250 for this service. New barrel machined from a blank runs about $500 to $550 for a round barrel in the white, I have a blank in stock.
    It is quite common to find oversized chamber on lever guns with strait walled cases, most have feeding problems.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    405grain's Avatar
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    Harter66: You said that you have a model '92 clone. Was this perchance made in Italy? It has been my experience that on some Italian replicas it looks almost as if they used a Morse taper reamer to chamber the barrels. I think that on those firearms which have such an oversized and tapered chamber, the guy doing the design specifications has never heard of reloading. Further, the decision makers on that project seem to be satisfied if the firearm goes bang, and have no concept of actual accuracy. The solution to this project is best served by having a new barrel made and installed. Boring and sleeving the existing barrel is also an option, but either way it's going to cost. Before you make a decision as to how to correct the rifle's deficiencies you'll need to ask yourself the hard question of whether the gun is valuable to you or not. If it is, then you can make it both accurate and reliable. But if it isn't, you'll just be spilling dollars to pick up nickles. (John Taylor has done work on rifles for my hunting buddy, and I've seen his work. It's top notch.)

  5. #5
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    Parts even saying that raise questions for which I don't have answers .

    I have a 92' clone in 45 Colts with a .496 chamber that tapers to .484 at the mouth into a .450 groove .
    It just irritates me no end that it is so hard on the brass , even more so than the BlackHawk companion.

    The barrel is threaded .890-40 or 20×@1.75 if I'm remembering what I read an hour ago right . Reaming the chamber any smaller than .600 will make a paper thin sleeve or precariously thin barrel shank .
    With the insert epoxied in at 1.6-7" and pistol chambered it should remove any blow back issues"under" the liner .

    Writing it out loud makes this sound even more foolish.

    Cons of a rebarrel .
    I have to pay someone to do it .
    I have a bid of just over twice the cost of the carbine.
    It'll take a yr to get it back .
    If I buy a lathe to do it myself....... That's just as bad idea , I'll either be an addict saving money hand over fist or do the 3-4 projects 75% of as nice as a pro , and it'll languish to death .

    Pros .
    The chamber will be right .
    I'll have the 20" short mag "heavy" barrel aesthetic I wanted.
    The 1-32" twist will be replaced with a 1-16" .
    It'll be a correct.452 groove .
    It'll be chamber matched to the BH .
    It'll get rid of the groove dip under the front dove tail.
    For some reason at least 80% of the time I see these clones with nasty chambers. Sloppy. Most are okay if you use factory ammo, but not good for reloaders. I always suggest sending it back to the maker if still under warranty.

    ACC

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Did the same gun come in 44 magnum ?? If so you could have the guy who rebored my Grandpa's 30-30 into a 35 remingon just re bore a barrel for you if you can find one ?? JES rifle re boring. You would have to talk to him but I'd presume he could swap the new barrel on for you. And the old barrel would have resale value I'd think.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    405 it is a Rossi.

    ACC 1 is about a1986 the other 2013 . Both have the rusty drill bit look . A tape lap will center the cases but it makes it impractical to share from pistol to rifle and back .

    Nope started as a 45 Colts .

    I have barrels . I had a plan . I had it set up ....... Life happens.
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    It’s not my gun, but if it were I believe I would have the chamber sleeved. I would trust John Taylor to do it right. Dennis Olson does a really good job on that as well, but isn’t taking work right now. Being that it is in 45 Colt, I just can’t see any advantage in rebarreling it. Jesse down at JES reboring does very good work and could do that using a 44 barrel, but why? If I had a 44 barrel, I might go that route, but given what I know I would send it to John. The sooner you send it, the sooner it gets in the queue.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    “With the insert epoxied in at 1.6-7" and pistol chambered it should remove any blow back issues"under" the liner .”

    I think Dennis told me he threads the inserts into a 1 degree crush fit up front. I’m not so sure I would be comfortable with epoxy on a chamber insert.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    A sleeve made a tad shorter than the case will prevent any blow back as the case will cover the joint (as in the Nagant revolver)
    But it will still be quite a jump from a .484 mouth to a .454 bore.

    If a full length sleeve is properly made (no gab between front face and barrel) and soft soldered in place, it will be perfectly safe.
    Cap'n Morgan

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    A sleeve made a tad shorter than the case will prevent any blow back as the case will cover the joint (as in the Nagant revolver)
    But it will still be quite a jump from a .484 mouth to a .454 bore.

    If a full length sleeve is properly made (no gab between front face and barrel) and soft soldered in place, it will be perfectly safe.
    Sleeve needs to be the same length as the brass or a tad longer. If it is short the brass can expand into the old part of the chamber and extraction will be hard. The old chamber is larger than the new chamber.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Lots of reasons I don't care for lever actions. Some of which can be found in this thread.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    What are the reports on the newer Rossi 45’s? If they are any better, I’d horse trade into one.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A light press fit or shrink fit with locktite at assembly should hold well. freeze the insert ad lightly heat the barrel stub then push together and let normalize. Maybe a 5*-10* angled end to Lock it at the front and help it seal.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDHasty View Post
    It’s not my gun, but if it were I believe I would have the chamber sleeved. I would trust John Taylor to do it right. Dennis Olson does a really good job on that as well, but isn’t taking work right now. Being that it is in 45 Colt, I just can’t see any advantage in rebarreling it. Jesse down at JES reboring does very good work and could do that using a 44 barrel, but why? If I had a 44 barrel, I might go that route, but given what I know I would send it to John. The sooner you send it, the sooner it gets in the queue.
    If this was mine and I had a 44 barrel - it would be getting rebuilt to 44/40

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub Big Goose's Avatar
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    John Taylor sleeved the chamber on my lovely little Sauer & Sohn stalking rifle. It had been a 8.15x46R Normal, but I got it fairly reasonable as some goofball had boogered up the chamber trying to make it accept 32 Win Sp..
    John sleeved it to 32-40, and it is perfection. He also did a fine job lining our old 1886 Winchester 38-56. That will now shoot better than my old eyes can see. I have a couple more projects in the works and I'll be sending him more work soon.
    Big Goose

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer View Post
    What are the reports on the newer Rossi 45’s? If they are any better, I’d horse trade into one.
    I have a 1984-1986 20" carbine and this 2013 the chambers and barrels are identical except the 13' has a dove tail front sight and the 84-86' has the barrel band sight .
    Both have had the polishing of internals done and are reasonably smooth , not 1895C JM Marlin smooth , but they aren't gravel roads .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check