How To Determine Alloy Content/Proportions?

[OTShooter]

I came across a thread today about using pewter to adjust the tin content of an alloy, and it made me wonder just what is in my own alloy.

I have essentially all wheel weights, which supposedly means a fairly consistent proportion of lead, tin, antimony and arsenic. And there are at least a few threads about this, such as this one. But everything I've read also points out that there is a "considerable variation" in alloy contents among wheel weights.

Since I cast for powder coating, I don't think hardness is a huge issue for most of my bullets, but maybe I should know a bit more about what metals I'm working with (like for casting temperatures, among other reasons).

Am I simply overthinking this (which I tend to do), or should I be concerned? And if that's true, how do I figure out what's in my alloy?

[fredj338]

I think far too much over thinking on alloy for pistol bullets. It needs to be hard enough, but exact alloy, just not a big deal, especially if you PC. So i blend alloy in the pot & weigh a couple bullets. If they are hvy, compared to mold spec wt, add more tin based alloy. If they are light, add more pure lead. I do test occasionally for hardness but i water drop out of the pc oven, just doesnt seem to be a big deal. Rifle bullets for longer range, i would be more picky.
There is an alloy calculator floating around here somewhere, but it requires you know the diff components you are adding. A bhn tester is useful, but again, for most handgun needs, just over thinking it.

[OTShooter]

Thanks! That clears up a lot of things for me.

[lightman]

A member here, BNE, has a sticky on XRF test that he had done and it shows that wheelweight alloy is remarkably consistent! Not lab grade consistent but plenty close enough for our purpose. A lot of casters add 2% tin. Don't over think it! Powder coating makes the hardness/alloy choice a lot more forgiving.

[Rickf1985]

All you need is a little tin added to the wheel weights for fill out and you are done. It does not have to be exact to the %. Wheel weights have NOT changed over the last 50 years. At least the lead ones haven't. More internet rumors.

[fredj338]

All you need is a little tin added to the wheel weights for fill out and you are done. It does not have to be exact to the %. Wheel weights have NOT changed over the last 50 years. At least the lead ones haven't. More internet rumors.

You may not even need that. I almost never add tin to an alloy for gen purp bullets. For lhp, tin & lead.

[Bazoo]

I add tin to wheel weights for better casting properties. I don't powder coat (yet) but I don't have any complaints using wheel weight alloy for full power 30-30 and 357 Magnum (plain base).

[fredj338]

I add tin to wheel weights for better casting properties. I don't powder coat (yet) but I don't have any complaints using wheel weight alloy for full power 30-30 and 357 Magnum (plain base).

Try not adding tin or at most 1%. I think too many add it as a default but try cadting first. You can always add a bit.

[farmbif]

all ive ever used, be it for 380acp, 30-06, 444 marlin, every caliber is clip on wheel weights with a bit of tin added, either solder or pewter. but nearly all my cast bullet loads are less than 2000 fps. I dont have any custom guns with twist rate optimized for high velocity cast bullet shooting. I use the pure lead and stick on wheel weights for shotgun slugs, buckshot and cap and ball

[bangerjim]

The key words in your listing above is "POWDER COATING" !!!!!! That cures most/all worries about hardness in subsonic loads.

[kevin c]

My take on this is that some folks care and/or need reproducibility in their alloy and others don’t care and/or don’t need that in their alloy.

And only you, knowing how what you cast is going to be used, can judge whether it performs to your satisfaction, and how much alloy composition played a part.

Casual tin can plinking with a pistol at 25 feet is different from taking down game for the larder with a .44 at 75 yards or shooting a silhouette with a rifle at several hundred yards.

[OTShooter]

So basically what I gather is that:

1: alloy content is typically about hardness,

2: alloy hardness is typically about leading, and potentially about terminal performance,

3: PC'd bullets (usually/typically) don't cause leading, so alloy content (and thus hardness) isn't a big concern,

4: if performance (or other factors) is/are a factor, then I might need to pay attention to my alloy's content.

Check me on that...have I missed an important point here?

[Rickf1985]

You hit it on the head. I do not powder coat nor do I plan to. If you are not powder coating then you need to pay a little more attention to your alloys but not to the nth degree. Wheel weights will cover most anything you shoot right up to cast rifle as long as you do not try to get into jacketed speeds. I shoot 30-06 at 1800-1900 and have no problem with straight wheel weights. You are looking at around 14 BHN. Now, if I were telling someone what alloy to use in rifle I always suggest 16 BHN. Basically too hard will cause leading and too soft will cause leading. Too soft is generally 12 or lower for most auto pistols and magnums and around 9,or less for revolvers shooting around 850 FPS. Do not take this as gospel since every gun is different. But if you have a really hard alloy and you have leading and the fit is good then it is too hard. Same on the other end of the scale, if you are shooting pretty soft and have leading then harden it up a little. But remember one thing, Fit is King in all cast shooting. Bore/Groove +.001 with a lot of people saying .002 over groove size. And a lot of the times you need to slug the bore to find that size. A .308 would need a .310 bullet.

[Bazoo]

Try not adding tin or at most 1%. I think too many add it as a default but try cadting first. You can always add a bit.

I do exactly that normally. Sometimes I'll have a batch that works just fine without any tin added. Then I add a minor amount of tin if not. I usually end up adding tin though because I get poor fill out without it. Not every time though.

I have had 1 batch, that no matter what I did, I couldn't get it to work. I used it up an ingot per pot at a time until it was gone. I have no idea what was wrong with it. I had about 20 pounds of it.

[roysha]

. I have had 1 batch, that no matter what I did, I couldn't get it to work. I used it up an ingot per pot at a time until it was gone. I have no idea what was wrong with it. I had about 20 pounds of it.

I had an acquaintance that I was teaching to cast bullets, who bought a 25 pound batch of "lead" off ebay that did that exact same thing. I suspected that it had been contaminated with zinc, but really don't know for sure. Naturally, it had to happen with a boob. Anyway, I traded him pound for pound, and did exactly what you did, an ingot in a pot full of regular "alloy". Used it all up and never had a problem.

I wasn't too worried about getting it diluted since at that time I had around 5000 pounds of mostly WWs with a big batch of foundry type, linotype, pure lead, range mined lead, and babbitt.

[bangerjim]

So basically what I gather is that:

1: alloy content is typically about hardness,

2: alloy hardness is typically about leading, and potentially about terminal performance,

3: PC'd bullets (usually/typically) don't cause leading, so alloy content (and thus hardness) isn't a big concern,

4: if performance (or other factors) is/are a factor, then I might need to pay attention to my alloy's content.

Check me on that...have I missed an important point here?

That is it.................in a nutshell. There are those on here that weigh each load to 0.01gn of powder, weigh each boolit and group them, and are intending to pip the ace at 1,000 yards. I am happy with a ~1" grouping at 80-100 yards with my several long guns. And same with my many hand guns at 100 feet. Doing it my way gives me lots more ammo to shoot, rather than spending inordinate amounts of my valuable time measuring, weighing, mixing, testing etc...........just to have them go splat on the other end!

PS..................I do not hunt anything other than water bottles and paper targets.

Do what floats your boat.

banger