Expanding 9mm for cast what do we need exactly?

[brokeasajoke]

Ok so I have read and read on expanding 9mm and have a mixed bag of answers. I have Hornady custom grade dies I use for 9mm (9x19). Yesterday I used a 38 special expander backed way out then flared the case with the standard 9mm expander die. Some say use a 38sw expander and some say order NOE. Which NOE? What size do I need? Where should my bullet size fall in-between the NOE expander plug? Some say get a Lyman M expander die. If someone could create a sticky maybe that has less posts and just the needed technical info would be great.

[Wheelguns 1961]

What diameter bullets do you want to try? I am a fan of the Noe expanders. Once you get a Lee universal expanding die, the inserts are relatively cheap. The last number is the size it will expand to. For instance, if you want to try a .358” bullet, you will need a .360x 356. I expandthe case .002” smaller than the bullet for neck tension. Other people won’t agree, but that is how I do it. You can get a couple sizes and experiment because they are not expensive.

[brokeasajoke]

Currently I have .357 to 358 depending on how I measure. I'm sizing them through a .358 lee sizer same as my 38/357 bullets.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Then you want the Noe 360 x 356. This will expand the inside of the case to .356”. This will give you .002” of neck tension. You may as well also get 1 larger and 1 smaller. The last time I checked, if you only order 1, the shipping is the most expensive part. As noted earlier, many people don’t go by the .002” of neck tension theory. This has always worked best for me in every caliber I load.

[jsizemore]

I use a .356 custom expander. I size bullets to a half thousandths under throat dimension. Throat is .358 so size is .3575. Pulled bullet is .3573-4. 9 BHN PC'd bullets are shot with fast or near fast burning powders to fill the throat so there is zero leading and good burn. Probably more info than you were looking for but it all has to work together.

[dtknowles]

I agree that you need neck tension, but too much is not a good thing with soft bullets as they will get swaged down when they are seated if you have too much neck tension. I think the recommendation of using .356" sizers is a good but if you have a 38special/.357 mag expander and are using .358" bullets you should not need a different expander, have you measured it. It might be .356 already or measure your brass after expanding with that expander it might spring back to .356" even if the expander is .357".

Since you have Hornady dies, I would think you want an expander that fits the Hornady expander die and not need to order another die body. Have you measured the case mouth ID after sizing and after expanding, there will be some spring back with most brass unless it has been annealed. I suggest you also pull a bullet or two from completed rounds to see if you are swaging down you bullets during seating. I don't think the Hornady seating dies crimp, so you need the neck tension to keep bullets from moving during action cycling. If you had a taper crimp die you don't need as much neck tension.

I don't think you need to expand and flare as two separate steps, whatever size expander you use should be fine to flare as well.

Sort of an advanced option that may or may not work depending on your dies, brass and your pistol but instead of setting up the sizing die so that the shell holder contacts the die body you could set it so it only sizes the brass enough to provide the proper neck tension. This probably will not work if you use carbide dies as the eliminate the taper of the 9x19 brass and size it straight. You would still need to use the expander to bell the case mouth, but you would be fine with the regular 9x19 .355" expander.

If your bullets are hard and your brass is soft, the regular 9x19 expander is fine.
Tim

[gloob]

Most will use an expander that is two thousandths smaller than boolit diameter.

For your 358 bullets, that is a 356 expander. You would buy NOE expander "360 x 356."




... I load 358 bullets in 9mm. I've tried all the sizes of expanders. I use an NOE 362 x 358. This is not a popular idea, but it leaves full neck tension in every test I have tried. I use an expander same size as my cast bullet in many calibers.

[Plinkmeister]

A stock set of vintage (1960's) RCBS 9mm carbide dies works very well for me.I've never measured the expander plug.

[brokeasajoke]

I agree that you need neck tension, but too much is not a good thing with soft bullets as they will get swaged down when they are seated if you have too much neck tension. I think the recommendation of using .356" sizers is a good but if you have a 38special/.357 mag expander and are using .358" bullets you should not need a different expander, have you measured it. It might be .356 already or measure your brass after expanding with that expander it might spring back to .356" even if the expander is .357".

Since you have Hornady dies, I would think you want an expander that fits the Hornady expander die and not need to order another die body. Have you measured the case mouth ID after sizing and after expanding, there will be some spring back with most brass unless it has been annealed. I suggest you also pull a bullet or two from completed rounds to see if you are swaging down you bullets during seating. I don't think the Hornady seating dies crimp, so you need the neck tension to keep bullets from moving during action cycling. If you had a taper crimp die you don't need as much neck tension.

I don't think you need to expand and flare as two separate steps, whatever size expander you use should be fine to flare as well.

Sort of an advanced option that may or may not work depending on your dies, brass and your pistol but instead of setting up the sizing die so that the shell holder contacts the die body you could set it so it only sizes the brass enough to provide the proper neck tension. This probably will not work if you use carbide dies as the eliminate the taper of the 9x19 brass and size it straight. You would still need to use the expander to bell the case mouth, but you would be fine with the regular 9x19 .355" expander.

If your bullets are hard and your brass is soft, the regular 9x19 expander is fine.
Tim

The Hornady expander die does not come apart. The biggest downside to their pistol dies. Can't disassemble it to clean. I set up the 38/357 expander but would like to expand and flare in a single step and have a dedicated 9mm instead of backing the expander plug out and in for different loading sessions.

[G W Wade]

I am loading on a Dillon 550. Picked up an expander from Photo Escape (available fron UnqiTex Also) Made for expanding 9mm to load .358 bullets. It expands the case deeper and does an "M" die flare on case mouth. I am enjoying loading 9's much more now. GW

[P Flados]

I make my own expander/flare dies. Even when I have had something that was "good enough" I have found it to be worth the effort to make a "better" expander for anything I use on a regular basis.

I want the boolits to slide into the case with little or no effort for a short distance and then I want the force required to seat the bullet to be on the "easy" side for most loads (H110 loads would be an exception, but I quit using the stuff).

If I did not have a mini lathe, I would definitely go with the NOE system in spades. Buy the plug you think you will need, one smaller and one bigger and try them all. Buy the Lee dies as needed. Buy in volume to save on shipping.

Having multiple "ready to go" NOE style expander dies set up for specific applications is worth the cost.

[fayettefatts]

... I load 358 bullets in 9mm. I've tried all the sizes of expanders. I use an NOE 362 x 358. This is not a popular idea, but it leaves full neck tension in every test I have tried. I use an expander same size as my cast bullet in many calibers.

I agree with gloob on this. Seems to give enough neck tension for me also.

[jsizemore]

I tried an RCBS 38/357 expander. It didn't flare the case mouth enough without getting into the case web.

[brokeasajoke]

I tried an RCBS 38/357 expander. It didn't flare the case mouth enough without getting into the case web.

I done mine in 2 steps. 357/38 then flared with 9mm die

[brokeasajoke]

Looks like
361-357 is all they have in stock right now.

[243winxb]

Start with barrels groove diameter. Bullet should be .0005" larger with 15 bhn alloy.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...9mm-luger.317/ Photo & info.


Rcbs 9mm Luge die set-

[243winxb]

The RCBS carbide sizing die applies the taper to the case. Not all die sets do.

[Ed_Shot]

I only use range pick-up brass for 9mm and I've accumulated a lot. I use 3-2-95 alloy and I size my PC'd 9mm to .357. I size 9mm brass with a LEE carbide die and then measure each case and cull any case that is .752" or longer and those that are .748" or shorter. In my experience, 9mm brass lengths of .758" and .740" are not uncommon with the great majority of my culls to the short side. My cull rate is about 15% for brass that I have not previously processed. After measuring I sort 9mm brass by headstamp because I like uniform neck tension and at this point I cull weird headstamps.

Since no one has mentioned it, case length matters to me when I go to expand a case mouth. I set my expander flare for .750" long brass and at that setting a piece of .744" brass (for example) will be insufficiently flared and will shave lead.

I expand 9mm brass twice. First, with a dedicated Lyman M1 die with a "38P" expander plug (the nose of my expander plug measures .356"). I expand the 9mm case with the 38P to the maximum depth where it will still freely plunk into my Lyman 9MM chamber gauge. This expands the case to .356" for the full seating depth of the boolit. At this point the 38P plug will not flare the case mouth. I then use a second dedicated Lyman M1 die with a "38AP" expander plug ( the nose of my plug measures .354") to flare the case mouth.

More work, yes, but I like the results.

[Cast10]

RCBS carbide dies and bell just enough to set bullet on case. Size to .357. Keplunk in my Glocks.