Coning a barrel

[Graysmoke]

Take it anywhere you like, I went to the bottom of the groves so I could put ball and patch flush with the bore which gave me more control of ram and barrel. Less than that caused more pressure on the ramrod and uncentering the sprue.
My answer is why not! You do yours where you are comfortable with.

[Good Cheer]

For you fellas that have used a coning tool, could you take measurements and post what the angles on the tools are?

[Graysmoke]

Good Cheer, the best I can do is….I used a mechanics square on one side put the tool next to it and put the protractor head on the other side and read the scale at 6 degrees of taper. Also put the machined flat end against the steel rule and laid the protractor on the taper, got the same reading. Ed Hamberger made the tool he can tell you the taper.
Graysmoke

[Good Cheer]

Thanks for the data Graysmoke.

[vikingsword7]

I'm in need of some advise! A couple years ago I acquired a new, never been shot, custom flinter, in .62 caliber, that I had to shelf for medical reasons that I now am ready to take out and enjoy. Having other smokepoles that I've shot, and then coned for ease of loading, I wish to cone this new barrel as well. I already have a coning tool in hand, but like I've said, I've never put a patched ball down the barrel yet, so my question is this, should I take this rifle out and shoot it to find the best ball size and ball/patch combination, or can I just cone it first, or, does it matter? What say you shooters more experienced than I. Thanks in advance.

[dondiego]

I'm in need of some advise! A couple years ago I acquired a new, never been shot, custom flinter, in .62 caliber, that I had to shelf for medical reasons that I now am ready to take out and enjoy. Having other smokepoles that I've shot, and then coned for ease of loading, I wish to cone this new barrel as well. I already have a coning tool in hand, but like I've said, I've never put a patched ball down the barrel yet, so my question is this, should I take this rifle out and shoot it to find the best ball size and ball/patch combination, or can I just cone it first, or, does it matter? What say you shooters more experienced than I. Thanks in advance.

I would shoot it a lot before I ever changed it! Can't uncone it.

[longbow]

I had never heard of coning before seeing this thread... I guess I have lived a sheltered life! Looking at the very shallow taper I would have thought that there would be gas leakage causing issues as the patched ball travels past the reducing land diameter since there would be decreasing press fit but reports are that accuracy is unaffected.

There also seems to be differing opinions on whether the ODG's coned barrels. I certainly have never heard of it before and if it is as good stated and makes loading faster and easier it makes me wonder why it wasn't pretty much universally used and why it isn't a standard practice now.

It also makes me wonder now when I recall people talking about worn muzzles on old guns. Were they worn muzzles or coned muzzles? I'd have to think that it would take many, many loading cycles to significantly wear a muzzle with a wooden ramrod. Yes, I get that abrasive particles can be stuck on a wooden ramrod but to wear a bore that much intentionally would take time and effort. To do it as a function of loading would take... forever?

Not sure of the policy of posting links to other sites but there is some good info on American Longrifles:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum...p?topic=4330.0
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum...40866#msg40866

For Good Cheer... this was posted this on Americzn Longrifles:

I wanted to answer this quickly before I leave and will leave the trig to you for exact angle. The universal one I made before does 30 to 69 caliber. The brass portion is the important part and it is 3 1/4” long. Front is .280” and other end is .700”
Should be all the measurements you need for finding angle.
Mark Brier

I quickly sketched this out in AutoCAD and get an inclusive angle of 7°.

I was wondering about why the angle is so low resulting in a very long taper in the bore but of course you want to be seating the patched ball flush with the muzzle and you only have the depth of rifling to work with. The angle could change a bit depending on rifling depth.

Longbow

[Doughty]

longbow, Thanks for the info on the coning tool angle.

[Good Cheer]

I had never heard of coning before seeing this thread... I guess I have lived a sheltered life! Looking at the very shallow taper I would have thought that there would be gas leakage causing issues as the patched ball travels past the reducing land diameter since there would be decreasing press fit but reports are that accuracy is unaffected.

There also seems to be differing opinions on whether the ODG's coned barrels. I certainly have never heard of it before and if it is as good stated and makes loading faster and easier it makes me wonder why it wasn't pretty much universally used and why it isn't a standard practice now.

It also makes me wonder now when I recall people talking about worn muzzles on old guns. Were they worn muzzles or coned muzzles? I'd have to think that it would take many, many loading cycles to significantly wear a muzzle with a wooden ramrod. Yes, I get that abrasive particles can be stuck on a wooden ramrod but to wear a bore that much intentionally would take time and effort. To do it as a function of loading would take... forever?

Not sure of the policy of posting links to other sites but there is some good info on American Longrifles:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum...p?topic=4330.0
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum...40866#msg40866

For Good Cheer... this was posted this on Americzn Longrifles:

I wanted to answer this quickly before I leave and will leave the trig to you for exact angle. The universal one I made before does 30 to 69 caliber. The brass portion is the important part and it is 3 1/4” long. Front is .280” and other end is .700”
Should be all the measurements you need for finding angle.
Mark Brier

I quickly sketched this out in AutoCAD and get an inclusive angle of 7°.

I was wondering about why the angle is so low resulting in a very long taper in the bore but of course you want to be seating the patched ball flush with the muzzle and you only have the depth of rifling to work with. The angle could change a bit depending on rifling depth.

Longbow

That would come out to a little over seven degrees.
Thank you sir. I've been looking at various off the shelf items adaptable to the process such as brass hose nozzles. I have one that's a little over six degrees and a little over six inches long. I have some coarse, medium and fine grit cloth coming soon.

[Hamish]

Google “relieved muzzle” and “ funnelled muzzle”. I’m learning this was far more common than might be believed.

[greyhawk]

[QUOTE=longbow;5802128]


It also makes me wonder now when I recall people talking about worn muzzles on old guns. Were they worn muzzles or coned muzzles? I'd have to think that it would take many, many loading cycles to significantly wear a muzzle with a wooden ramrod. Yes, I get that abrasive particles can be stuck on a wooden ramrod but to wear a bore that much intentionally would take time and effort. To do it as a function of loading would take... forever?

maybe not? lots of shooters using composite (fibreglass etc) or metal rods on the range

I bought a second hand gun that came with a range rod fitted with a nylon muzzle guard - parallel sides and just a whisker under bore size - it did not take much use at all till you could see the mark from that muzzle guard imprinted on the rifling quite clearly - surprised I was - it got binned pronto and replaced - I have always made and used a brass guard (captive on the rod if possible) with a 45 degree cut that fits the angle of the crown

Have seen a couple barrels ruined by hamfisted use of unprotected rods - it shows as wear on one side of the bore - lop an inch off and recrown and all is well

[longbow]

Yes, I can undrstand a fiberglass range rod wearing the bore, I was meaning a typical hickory ramrod. When rammed straight down the bore it will certainly rub on the muzzle but not with a lot of pressure and hickory won't be abrasive. The only abrasion would come from grit sticking to the ramrod and I doubt BP fouling is hard enough to abrade the bore. Sand/dust would be but how much sand/dust is going to be on a ramrod?

Not saying it can't or doesn't happen, just that if you take a piece of hickory and rub it on the bore intentionaly I suspect you would be at it for a LOOOONNNG time before any significant amount of metal was removed.

Anyway, it was just a though that popped into my wrinkled old brain after reading debates about whether the ODG's coned barrels or not. Since the coning is only "rifling" deep (~0.005") that isn't a bunch and if "evenly worn" I'd have to wonder if that was ramrod wear or a coned muzzle is all and I was also talking about 100+ year old muzzleloaders not 30 years old with fiberglass ramrods.

The conversations seem to point out that coning tools don't seem to be found in old gunsmithing tools. If there were long tapered reamers in old gunsmithjing tools that would be a good indicator that it may be a coning tool. However, it a hardwood cone was made and abrasive paste made... sort of the equivalent of these newer brass tools wrapped with emery cloth, they may not have survived.

Speculation on my part! The ODG's were pretty smart so I'd kinda think they would have thought about coning if it works so well. However, I am certainly no expert and learning as I go.

I don't do much muzzleloader shooting anymore but am still interested so will be following this thread and doing a little more internet research to see what I can find.

And yes, a brass or steel range rod with brass tips is probably better than wood and certainly better than plastic and way better than fiberglass. Even then a brass muzzle guard is a good idea. I am with you there!

Longbow