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Thread: 22LR to 22 K Hornet

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    22LR to 22 K Hornet

    I have an Stevens bolt action 22 I bought for $18 back in the late 60's. Outside of cleaning it up and getting it to hit to point of aim it hasn't seen any real use beyond feral cats in decades. Thinking it's be nice to have a reloadable 22 for squirrel hunting I did an archive search on converting a rimfire 22 to K Hornet. It seems there's as many fur it as agin it. Since I would be handloading the bore diameter difference isn't an issue. Is there more that I should be aware of either from a safety or practicality standpoint? The biggest obvious down side is the rifle becoming a single shot.

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold
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    Check the rifling twist rate before you do it

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddog13 View Post
    Check the rifling twist rate before you do it
    1 in 16 - I think. Isn't the CZ527 in K Hornet 1 in 14? No Hornet anything experience, so I have no opinion.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    You will be ahead to just buy a hornet rifle.

  5. #5
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    The Hornet and K Hornet produce way too much pressure for a normal rimfire action.
    Plus machine work to convert the action to a larger centerfire round would be significant in cost.
    Nope; wouldn’t do it.
    As said above, just buy a .22 Hornet rifle.


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  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Theres several things to look at.
    1) conversion to center fire. this will not only modify the bolt but trigger mechanics as well.
    2) the amount of force tio fire the center fire primer over the rim fire.
    3) extractor ejector modifications needed.
    4) actions pressure limits and locking lugs
    5) action length unless its a single shot most 22s arnt long enough for the hornet round

    I have a marlin single shot 22 (15Y)that was going to get the barrel reamed out to make a garden/barn gun for dad, But on checking it the ejection port wasnt long enough for the winchester rounds with the star crimped ends to eject.

    You need to do a lot of checking into this before even considering it.
    Buying a good hornet new or used is the better option.

  7. #7
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    If you really want a reloadable .22 in center fire, look up the .22 Ladybug. It is based on the .25 ACP case and a lot more suitable for a .22 action than the Hornet.

    There aren't a lot of .22 rifles that I can recommend converting to centerfire for the reason Texas by God stated: Pressure.

    Robert

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    If you really want a reloadable .22 in center fire, look up the .22 Ladybug. It is based on the .25 ACP case and a lot more suitable for a .22 action than the Hornet.

    There aren't a lot of .22 rifles that I can recommend converting to centerfire for the reason Texas by God stated: Pressure.

    Robert
    Mk, I'm on it! A .22 Ladybug search turned it up no problem.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    That late Frank DeHaas in his book on bolt action rifles had a chapter on an inexpensive German made .22 Hornet bolt rifle. DeHaas pointed out that the rifle was nothing more than a converted .22LR rifle with the bolt handle as the single locking lug. If my memory serves me right DeHaas wrote that the rifle very soon developed excessive head space. Anyway, my point is that Frank DeHaas who really knew what he was talking about thought that most .22 bolt action rifles were a poor choice to build a .22 Hornet rifle on.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Ive seen quite a few martini cadets rebarreled to 22 hornet and 218 bee using 22 rimfire take off barrels. Early hornets were also 22 rimfire bores and twists. But the 22 rimfire actions arnt strong enough to justify the conversion.
    I have a post 68 model 70 on the bench I may some day build into a hornet. It was 22-250 and over stressed to the point the bolt wont open. Have to get it apart and see what it is. Or I may go the other way and convert to rimfire

  11. #11
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottnc View Post
    I have an Stevens bolt action 22 I bought for $18 back in the late 60's. Outside of cleaning it up and getting it to hit to point of aim it hasn't seen any real use beyond feral cats in decades. Thinking it's be nice to have a reloadable 22 for squirrel hunting I did an archive search on converting a rimfire 22 to K Hornet. It seems there's as many fur it as agin it. Since I would be handloading the bore diameter difference isn't an issue. Is there more that I should be aware of either from a safety or practicality standpoint? The biggest obvious down side is the rifle becoming a single shot.
    Could be too much pressure for that gun. Check SAMMI and see if they have information about the pressure of a K or regular Hornet. I don't believe that that rifle has enough locking lugs on the bolt.

    ACC

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Winchester model 70 use 22 LR barrels for the hornet. Problem is bullet size, some use .223 and other use .224. The .224 in a long rifle barrel will cause pressure issues. The Hornet is a little to much for most 22LR actions. Firing pin spring needs to be strong enough so the primmer will not blow. The only rimfire that I can think of that would have no problem going to Hornet would be a Remington 580, 581. This is one of the strongest rim fire action. The hornet has about 25,000 psi chamber pressure. Max for a 22 LR is 24,000 but with a smaller head size.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Actually, the hornet pressure is more like 44,000 psi. My hornet is a .223 but I shoot .224 bullets through it. Not only that but I use 55gr bullets. But then, it is build on a 222 Rem action. The 222 SAAMI spec is 45,000 CUP which is similar to the hornet but has a larger case base so I can get away with it. But on a 22lr action? The original 22 hornet was built on 22lr actions and barrel but that was with black powder which is where I think the figure of 25,000 psi comes from. And lead bullets too I think?

    A curious thing that I have mentioned several times before is that the the 1 in 16 twist of the hornet actually stabilizes 60 gr spire point bullets. It shoots them very well in fact.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Actually, the hornet pressure is more like 44,000 psi. My hornet is a .223 but I shoot .224 bullets through it. Not only that but I use 55gr bullets. But then, it is build on a 222 Rem action. The 222 SAAMI spec is 45,000 CUP which is similar to the hornet but has a larger case base so I can get away with it. But on a 22lr action? The original 22 hornet was built on 22lr actions and barrel but that was with black powder which is where I think the figure of 25,000 psi comes from. And lead bullets too I think?

    A curious thing that I have mentioned several times before is that the the 1 in 16 twist of the hornet actually stabilizes 60 gr spire point bullets. It shoots them very well in fact.
    I think generally the black powder pressure curve is much more gentle than smokeless powder, mainly due to the slower speed of burn. Even if the max overall pressure is the same, the explosive impulse stress to the action is lower than with smokeless. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    There would be pretty major engineering involved just to get it centerfire.

    Even more of it to achieve extraction and ejection on the wider case head.

    Is the ejection/loading port even long enough?

    Then let's consider the action design: a cheap price-point rifle made to handle the forces generated by .22LR. Asking a Honda Civic to handle Hemi horsepower isn't a great plan for vehicle longevity.

    I've got a Winchester 43 which started life as a Hornet that a previous owner did the K conversion to. Thankfully, it's one of the later ones less prone to the headspace-stretching issues of the earlier production. That problem may be somewhat instructive for you - the 43 is essentially the .22LR 69A upscaled for Hornet.

    Seek your Hornet elsewhere, IMO.
    WWJMBD?

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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Flying a helicopter upside down makes more sense to me.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarrinvz24 View Post
    I think generally the black powder pressure curve is much more gentle than smokeless powder, mainly due to the slower speed of burn. Even if the max overall pressure is the same, the explosive impulse stress to the action is lower than with smokeless. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it.
    Yes, I believe that to be so. A suddenly applied load doubles the load compared to a gradually applied or static load. Shock loads are another ball game and that is what we would be looking at. It would be interesting to see the shock load curves for bolt faces with different burn rates and loads.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-15-2024 at 03:00 AM.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
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    I would think the rimfire to centerfire would be enough to make that a no go unless you have access to a pretty significant machine shop and knowledge on how to use it. I know on something like the old Contenders, there was a switch on the hammer allowing you to move the firing pin from center to rim depending upon application.

    Other than that, I'm sure there are many other issues that would crop up with regards to pressure, but typically the 22 hornet could be downloaded to whatever pressure you were comfortable with. I've got a couple of small 22 centerfires (77/22h, #3 hornet, m65 218bee, Savage 23D, etc) but would never consider trying to convert a rimfire to centerfire. Too easy to just buy a rifle that works out of the box.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    A .22 Hornet black powder.

    Interesting idea. Seems like that was done before....

    22 WCF.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    the days of a $125 Zastava M85 in 22 hornet are long gone. I miss those days.
    as stated earlier 22 Hornet produces 2X the pressure of a 22LR. and it would probably take a talented gunsmith to convert a rim fire bolt to center fire

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check