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Thread: Pedersoli Rolling Block chamber cast results

  1. #1
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Pedersoli Rolling Block chamber cast results

    Mixed bag, and some head scratching on how to proceed. You can see in the first picture, the land indention stops well before the case mouth: lots of freebore. In the second picture, another land goes all the way to the case mouth. 3 of the 6 lands go all the way to the case mouth, one is relatively near, and two are as shown in the first pic.

    The chamber itself, minus the base thickness of the case is 2.085”: when adding the .07” base thickness the brass to fit exact chamber is 2.155”.

    Groove Diameter, as measured with my Shiny Jap calipers, and outside Micrometer measured out at @ .4625”, with a few slightly deeper and a few slightly shallower: not .458” I expected.

    Bore Diameter: that’s a tough one. Had so much trouble trying to measure inside those grooves with my dial calipers I can’t reliably say, though I got .453” several times. I’d need one of those “point Micrometer’s” to take the measurement to be more sure.

    I wish to paper patch, and preferably BP. With some lands continuing to case mouth, and others as far as ”.05” from case mouth, what to patch to, DDPP? I really want to hear recommendations from you guys who’ve been through this journey. Given the weird land readings, whatch’ya think?
    Cheers
    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_5879.jpg   IMG_5877.jpg  
    Last edited by piwo; 10-04-2024 at 10:53 PM.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Rapidrob's Avatar
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    Something is not right between the two photos. In photo 1 you can clearly see an open area as it sweeps around to the other side of the casting.
    In the 2nd photo there is not a hint of an open area. To have one side nice and rifled leading to the the chamber lead, and the the side showing none, it is just not possible for the centered rifling button to do this.
    I would re-do the chamber cast and really allow the cerosafe to cool for several minutes. Or use candle wax as a back up.
    A cheap Endoscope off of Ebay for a couple of bucks would also show if there really is a weird chamber in your rifle.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    You need two dimensions. The inside of the case mouth of a fire formed case. And the bore diameter. Some times the best way to get the bore diameter is to try different bullets. If the bullet that fits the case mouth snugly also fits into the bore, I would shoot that. If this is going to be a hunting rifle, I would have a 3/8” band at the bullets base patched to fit the case and the rest patched .004” under bore diameter to allow fitting into a fouled chamber. A 1.1” long bullet at 420 grains will make a great hunting bullet. This chamber is a good example of why I will never buy another Italian rifle.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    It would seem that the chamber is not concentric to the bore. Might shoot just fine but not idea.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Chamber is cut crooked. The reamer pilot was too small and let it wander off center. Looks like a good candidate to become a 45-90.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    I had a Remington 700 in .243 with the same issue, I had bought it new from Cabela's.

    I created such a stink in the store, they took it back and gave me an identical model.

    Neither would shoot under 3" at a hundred yards.

    Wrote a nasty gram to Remington, they had me send it back, they replaced the entire rifle, #3 shot right at an inch but was the worst coppering gun I've ever owned.

    If it's new, I'd contact Pedersoli.

    And my chamber casts looked like your's, rifling on one side of the throat, none on the other side. That rifle was about 4-1/2" @ 100 yards.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    A good gunsmith (not a gun parts changer) might be able to rechamber that to 45-90.
    But the best bet is a rebarrel by a competent gunsmith.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    If it's new, I'd contact Pedersoli.

    And my chamber casts looked like your's, rifling on one side of the throat, none on the other side. That rifle was about 4-1/2" @ 100 yards.
    This - if new, return for replacement.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Well, this little adventure just keeps getting more interesting.

    The rifle is not new:,it was bequeathed to me from a family friend. I’m going to try and heat the chamber / throat up with a hair dryer before “re-casting” to see if I can get a better cast. Hoping for a better outcome, but certainly not counting on it. Seemed to shoot factory fodder OK, though never shot for group really, just getting it on paper at 100 and 200 yards.

    Hopefully get a cleaner look in an hour or two….
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Updated cast: more of the same. A much cleaner cast but exactly as previous. 3 lands start at the case mouth, one about .05 up, two about .15+” above case mouth. What crap!

    I suppose I can buy some .444 paper patch slicks from BACO and patch them to @.450, though I think .451 or.452 is probably more in line with bore dimension. I wish they sold some of those.446 slicks and not just the mould!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_5889.jpg   IMG_5888.jpg  
    "So how many Divisions does this Pope have?".. Joseph Stalin

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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    It won’t matter much what bullet you try it’s doubtful the rifle will shoot any groups until that chamber gets evened up
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    It won’t matter much what bullet you try it’s doubtful the rifle will shoot any groups until that chamber gets evened up
    Ya, expect that to be the case. The only options are to re-barrel, have the chamber cut out to 45-90, have the throat extended to meet the other lands(freebore city). I’ll probably tinker for a bit while waiting to be be in a position to do one of the other options, not likely till after the first of the year.
    "So how many Divisions does this Pope have?".. Joseph Stalin

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  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Barrel could possibly be set back 2 turns and chamber re-cut. it may still follow the old chamber. I had a match rifle barrel in 223 that was like this, wouldnt shoot good ( as I expected from a lilja barrel) took off most of the original chamber rechamber with it set up dead zero and proper pilot it became a under moa barrel

    Barrels are rifled and then the tennon turned and threaded, last the chamber is cut. either the barrel wasnt running true when it was cut, wasnt straight in the machine, or the reamer walked from under sized pilot chip load or both. This is why a 4 jaw and a spider are used setting both chamber and muzzle to zero run out to insure they are straight with the machine. A unsupported muzzle can be off center to the machine do to weight and flex in the chuck.
    Going to 45 90 might cure this but the new reamer may follow the old chamber, Also on a roller it may make loading harder with the longer round having to slide over the hammer.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Barrel could possibly be set back 2 turns and chamber re-cut. it may still follow the old chamber. I had a match rifle barrel in 223 that was like this, wouldnt shoot good ( as I expected from a lilja barrel) took off most of the original chamber rechamber with it set up dead zero and proper pilot it became a under moa barrel
    .
    Reminds me of the movie Argo:” this is the best bad idea we have sir, by far”. Well, I got a box of factory fodder and I’m gonna shoot it for group and see what happens.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    As mentioned above, the chamber is cut off-center to the bore. It'll never be a tack-driver. This is way more common than most people realize.
    Fix it, dump it or live with it. It will never get better.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Rapidrob's Avatar
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    I would contact the factory and provide the cleaner photos. That barrel should never have passed QC.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapidrob View Post
    I would contact the factory and provide the cleaner photos. That barrel should never have passed QC.
    I was given the rifle after the original owner passed. Doubt they would do anything for me but I will send them an email w photos…..
    "So how many Divisions does this Pope have?".. Joseph Stalin

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    As mentioned above, the chamber is cut off-center to the bore. It'll never be a tack-driver. This is way more common than most people realize.
    Fix it, dump it or live with it. It will never get better.
    Ya, tough pill to swallow: had high hopes… but I will be shooting it to see how it does… hopefully at least “minute of deer” w factory fodder in November.
    "So how many Divisions does this Pope have?".. Joseph Stalin

    "Be not afraid"..
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  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master WILCO's Avatar
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    Any updates? I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the rifle and maybe a story of how it came to you.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master piwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILCO View Post
    Any updates? I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the rifle and maybe a story of how it came to you.
    No actionable updates at this time. Pedersoli only has a 2 year Warranty, and only for the original owner. It’s well over 2 years and I’m not the original owner. The rifle came to me via my best friends father in law, who I’ve known for years and went to many gun shows together over 30+ years. Before he passed he told his family to make sure I got one of his firearms. No one knew what the Rolling Block was, or wanted it and I couldn’t have been happier with that particular piece.
    It seems my options are to cut a 45-90 chamber, re-barrel, see if the barrel can be shortened and the chamber re-cut, or just leave it as is and use it as a plinking rifles. Kenny Wasserman sent me a message suggesting I reach out to Lee Shaver, who is a Pedersoli Authorized gunsmith and get his opine. This is something I will definitely do, but not likely till December as I plan on Hunting with it in MO deer season using factory fodder. At 100 yards it’s more than satisfactory with factory ammo and that’s the extent of the range I have available, well perhaps 150 yds. Lee Shaver Gunsmith is about @ 2 hours from my home so that will be convenient.

    Not a great pic, when I get home from New Mexico next week I’ll try to post something better.

    Cheers!
    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_5973.jpg  
    "So how many Divisions does this Pope have?".. Joseph Stalin

    "Be not afraid"..
    Pope John Paul II

    Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it.
    Pope John Paul II

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