Fire Damage On Rifle

[jonp]

I was online looking around and came across a fire damaged rifle. The thing I'm curious about is how much would be enough for concern. The wood on the stock is darkened but not burnt so the heat couldn't have been that bad. What would be the point someone would do a hard pass or buy for either very reduced loads or a wall hanger?

How would you test it to make sure it was safe to fire?

[Ford SD]

I was online looking around and came across a fire damaged rifle. The thing I'm curious about is how much would be enough for concern. The wood on the stock is darkened but not burnt so the heat couldn't have been that bad. What would be the point someone would do a hard pass or buy for either very reduced loads or a wall hanger?

How would you test it to make sure it was safe to fire?

Not A gunsmith but what I have read is

If the springs have lost there temper (the spring) the gun is only good for a wall hanger

also if the stock is burt it aclso could be a wall hanger

[HWooldridge]

Were you looking at that 1895 Winchester in 35 WCF?

You can lose temper on hardened parts or springs around 500-600F and it gets worse as the temp increases. A big piece of wood, like a stock, is hard to light so the metal could have gotten pretty hot and then cooled quickly enough not to ignite the wood. Steel parts discolor in an orderly sequence from light straw to blue so you might be able to see how hot it got (more or less).

Of course, it may also not be a problem depending on the gun. I have a '92 Winchester with an obviously discolored receiver that may have been heated with a torch but the rest of the metal parts are fine. Gun shoots well and none of the springs or hardened parts were affected (and someone in the past may have changed out components).

[charlie b]

I'd not use it unless it was tested. Measuring surface hardness would be sufficient. If the surface is still ok then the 'meat' of it would be as well.

[Ajohns]

Take this for what it's worth
Years ago where I'm at, a guy had his garage burn down. He had all of his guns in a "fire proof" Browning safe.
When all was said and done, he opened the safe to find everything in really nice shape. Until he grabbed one of the shotguns. All the bluing on it, and every gun in the safe had lost its bluing due to the chemical burn of the chord of his factory dehumidifier.
Our local gunsmith had checked the guns over and found mechanically, nothing was wrong with them.
He reblued the guns as Browning would not stand behind the burnt chord on the humidifier they sold.
So he had guns that had sedimental value to him, but were all reblued.
Again, the gunsmith had checked all the guns, they were mechanically fine.

I realize this instance is probably different than most. But just some facts about fires and guns.

[country gent]

Also remember annealing of the steel isnt the only thing that can happen when the fire dept comes in spraying cold water the steel can also be hardened becoming brittle.These changes cant be seen with the naked eye. Testing with a hardness tester will leave a dimple showing , so there will be a blemish actually several.
I wont trust a fire damaged rifle for anything but a wall hanger. the circumstances and conditions just arnt known.

[GregLaROCHE]

I think it comes to what the price is and what type of gun. If it’s an antique muzzle loader, and the price is right, give it a shot. If it ends up being a wall hanger, it still has a value.

[kaiser]

Ajohns, if I knew him (?), could be talking about me. I once had a house fire that started in the garage and burned much of the lower level of our "salt box", two story house. I had my guns stored in a safe in one of the upstairs rooms. When I opened the safe to retrieve the guns, moisture enveloped the firearms and rust "magically" appeared on the metal parts. The stocks seemed to be unharmed. I took them to a gunsmith and he went through them all, but other than some "re-blueing", most were fine. None of them were "unserviceable" or damaged beyond repair. I still have that safe today - it is a keeper! However, I also have a couple of small (cheap) safes that wouldn't last long in any kind of fire and are only used for items of lesser value. At best a safe makes it harder for a "non-professional" thief to gain access, a "level 1" degree of fire protection, and a "level 2" degree of psychological security. Keeping guns and safe hidden - priceless!

[Ajohns]

I'm thinking different case, this northern Mn
Safe was in the garage, and the bluing came off on the hands when retrieving the firearms
But sounds very similar

[jdgabbard]

Personally....

I value my hands and eyeballs more than any rifle. I don't care what condition it's in. If it went through a fire, and was visibly altered, in my mind I'd rather hang it on a wall than every put a live round in it. Matter of fact, I would have it demilled... You never know when your time to punch out has come. And your family may not remember there was an issue with that rifle. I'd hate to think my actions resulted in someone else's injury or death...

Just my .02

[jonp]

Were you looking at that 1895 Winchester in 35 WCF?

You can lose temper on hardened parts or springs around 500-600F and it gets worse as the temp increases. A big piece of wood, like a stock, is hard to light so the metal could have gotten pretty hot and then cooled quickly enough not to ignite the wood. Steel parts discolor in an orderly sequence from light straw to blue so you might be able to see how hot it got (more or less).

Of course, it may also not be a problem depending on the gun. I have a '92 Winchester with an obviously discolored receiver that may have been heated with a torch but the rest of the metal parts are fine. Gun shoots well and none of the springs or hardened parts were affected (and someone in the past may have changed out components).

No, different lever action.

[beemer]

I have cleaned some that were in a safe during a fire. They had a crust from a section of carpet in the front corner that got hot and smoked the interior . It ruined the blue on a Win 70, bubbled a couple places in the stock but the scope survived. When the crust was removed the blue came off. Guy is still shooting it. Several others were the same. A Walther PP survived, crusty but when cleaned up the blue was as before the fire. Must have been a better process. A nickle Smith 29 had etched surface. The ones not in the safe were trash. Personally I look at some things sideways, you don need direct flame to be too hot.

[35 Rem]

Not even getting to the technical issue of whether or not the gun is safe to use, from my experience, anytime a damaged gun or parts gun is listed on GunBroker, it's viewed as a bargain. People will therefore bid ANY amount - no limits - to get the bargain gun. I quit even following them for that reason.

[Rockindaddy]

Bought my pre-lawyer safety Marlin 1895 45-70 at a sporting goods fire sale for $50. The wood stocks were burned and not useable. The springs seemed ok. Blue was a mess. I got new wood for it and killed a nice fat 8-point whitetail that fall. Probably have shot over 2 dozen deer with this ole beater rifle. Have since hand polished the rifle and removed all the rust and pits. Traded some work for an engraver to chisel the gun. Made some new wood after falling with the rifle on icey snow and breaking the replacement butt stock. This current butt stock has a Marlin Goose Gun pad on it to suck up some of the recoil launching 400 gr boolits in front of 55grs of 3031. Finally got around to dumping it in the blue tank! Still banging Bambi with this great old rifle. The fire sale Marlin 1895 is the last 45-70 on the right of the photo.

[kaiser]

My fire was actually in Mid-Iowa 4 days after Christmas - almost as cold as MN!