Tri-Ball Revisited!

[Bob Fleming]

They are hiring in the permian basin again. One of my nephews just got a great job out there. I don't know if there are many hogs in the desert out there but tri-ball can solve a lot of different problems. But ONLY the hard, tough and strong kind of guys in the patch would want to use it for self defense. And then, only if they still have all their fingers to hang on to the shotgun with. I well know y'all are not normal humans but trust me, those balls are plenty big. The damage they do is like nothing else.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Sir James, was great and it would be great if you too please chip-in and share your experiances with Tri-Ball loads.
Just out of due respect keep his post from getting lost in the wood works.

Moderator Herr Gebirgs Jager please turn it in to a sticky along with my good friend " Big Brother Musketeer ED's From Hell" right below mine !
A good caring friend indeed ! !


Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[warren5421]

Got a 590A1 on the way and some .600 WW dropped in water. Still trying to find hulls as I only have used. Have a Charman box full of AA from shoting skeet in the 80's and 90's but looking for primed Cheddite or Fiocchi. Only have 500 Wenchester 209's left.

[Roosterbob]

I bought 3 boxes from a friend who had ordered 15 boxes from Mr James a few years ago. 2-3 rounds were used to pattern test in my old 390 Beretta and the rest were used by me and a friend on whitetail. The Beretta with a factory mod choke would make a 3-4” triangle pattern at 45 yds all day long. Penetration on 100-150lb deer was complete pass through at all angles. Used them up on venison before a hog made its self available for use. Fine load!!

Bob

[Keith]

Now that some places are banning lead , has anyone tried a tri ball load using steel ball bearings.
Taofledermaus has a couple of videos using one ball. Ricochets could be a problem but if hunting, what happens.?
I know, not casting for shotguns but thought I would ask. Bit like those flechette things

[warren5421]

Came on a 835 Moss but have to get a slug barrel before I came us it.

[NikoVlahou]

Hello Mike! The Dixie Tri-Ball is not what is considered a Buck and Ball load, but rather a multi-ball load. The original Buck and Ball load has one round ball and various mumber of buck shot. As a military round, it was issued to those that had smoothbore muskets. A fine example was the loads issued to the 26th Georgia Infantry at Fredricksburg. The shot the Irish Brigade to pieces in their three charges against the stonewall. It was a close range load indeed.
The recipe for Tri-Ball is as follows:
(1) 12 ga 3" Cheddite, Fiocchi, or Federal Gol Metal hull
(2) 28/29 grs of Alliant Blue Dot
(3) Precision Relooding Orange Wad TUPRWW123
(4) Three .600" hard cast round balls
(5) Precision Reloading buffer
(6) Thin overshot wad.
The buffer is to be vibrated around the balls. The ball tapped tight in the wad so the bottom ball is snug in the wad. Wads are dusted with Motor Mica
Regards, James

My question is how does this load data change when using the new hulls that are mostly coming with magnum primers? Fiocchi is now putting mag primers in all their hulls.

[NikoVlahou]

James, most of the new hulls now esp from fiocchi come with magnum primers installed. How would this data be different using a magnum primer?

[Bob Fleming]

Post #31 from this thread:
Let's talk about Dixie Tri-Ball for a moment. As you know, I have put various recipes here on Cast Boolits for reloaders (they buy few factory rounds) and have had trouble in the past by loaders wanting to use components other than those I have listed.
Now.....the first Tri-Ball loads were with Blue Dot and they worked very good. Over time we were able to buy Primex 513 and since it was a all-temp powder, we moved to that.
We have seen very little difference when sub'ing the following:
(1) Hulls...Fiochhi, Cheditte, Federal (as long as they were not tapered hullls)
(2) Very little difference in primers
(3) Most important to use the Precision "orange "wad
(4) Very little (if any) difference if heat treated balls or not....as long as they are as hard as at least 10 to 1 (lead.tin). Only those with antimony can be heat treated. Some of the best balls can be made from melted high antimony shot!
Now....Primex 513 is getting hard to get and we are now testing Primex 516 (Lil'Gun). 28 grains of Blue Dot equals 28 grains of Primex 513 equals 32 grains of Primex 516 (LiL'Gun)....all are the same volume for crimp index with a rolled crimp and pressure.
When our testing is done and I am satisfied with all the results....I will post the revised recipe....don't ask me yet! And don't ask we about other componenet either.
At present we are working very hard to keep up with nationwide orders on Dixie Tri-Ball!!!!!
Regards, James

[Bob Fleming]

Let's talk about Dixie Tri-Ball for a moment. As you know, I have put various recipes here on Cast Boolits for reloaders (they buy few factory rounds) and have had trouble in the past by loaders wanting to use components other than those I have listed.
Now.....the first Tri-Ball loads were with Blue Dot and they worked very good. Over time we were able to buy Primex 513 and since it was a all-temp powder, we moved to that.
We have seen very little difference when sub'ing the following:
(1) Hulls...Fiochhi, Cheditte, Federal (as long as they were not tapered hullls)
(2) Very little difference in primers
(3) Most important to use the Precision "orange "wad
(4) Very little (if any) difference if heat treated balls or not....as long as they are as hard as at least 10 to 1 (lead.tin). Only those with antimony can be heat treated. Some of the best balls can be made from melted high antimony shot!
Now....Primex 513 is getting hard to get and we are now testing Primex 516 (Lil'Gun). 28 grains of Blue Dot equals 28 grains of Primex 513 equals 32 grains of Primex 516 (LiL'Gun)....all are the same volume for crimp index with a rolled crimp and pressure.
When our testing is done and I am satisfied with all the results....I will post the revised recipe....don't ask me yet! And don't ask we about other componenet either.
At present we are working very hard to keep up with nationwide orders on Dixie Tri-Ball!!!!!
Regards, James

Lets try that again! See item #2

[NikoVlahou]

Have you tried magnum primers with this load? Most new fiocchi hulls all come with mag primers installed

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings NikoVlahou, I have for years switched primers on newer Fiocchi hull, if the newer Fiocchi hulls are now coming with Magnum primers other than Fio 616 primer then switch to Fio 616 or better yet not bother to switch.
Just reduce your powder charge by 3 gr and test shoot. I would say you could come up 1/2 gr each time.
First Try 25gr, next 25.5gr, next 26gr, next 26.5gr, next 27gr and finally 27.5gr your primer should look like the one on Extreme right in the picture and No crater marks at all !
**--** Please use only newer Fiocchi hull for this development load, do keep an eye on the primers the way they look after firing.



Please be sure to use a modern shotgun and not one with paper thin barrel.
Can you post a picture of the primer and the hull, that's news to me.




Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Bob Fleming]

Have you tried magnum primers with this load? Most new fiocchi hulls all come with mag primers installed

YES. 3" fiocchi with mag primers from BPI is what I loaded all of mine with. I have no pressure test data but nothing looks over pressure. They still have a tremendous kick. Shooting one or two while hinting is no big deal but I find excuses to avoid shooting a bunch of them at the pattern board. Still using 26 grains of blue dot. Was going to work the load up to 28 but the first word I said was holy and I won't mention the second. That was plenty.

[Bob Fleming]

I am using a Browning BPS with the older style 3" Invector barrel. My chamber may be different than yours.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Bob, It sure was a pleasure hearing from you and your words of wisdom !

Tell us more about why your Browning BPS chamber is different?
What's your barrel OD measure at the muzzle.

You bet Sir James is smiling upon you from above for keeping his memory alive, we all should do the same out of our respect for Sir James !
Bob can you post the picture of your primer condition with 26 gr Blue Dot after firing, Please.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Bob Fleming]

The primer looks normal. The last hunt was before the big winter storm. Four below zero Fahrenheit was a big deal for east Texas. That shell was lost on the ground and I have reloaded all the others so no photos. There is nothing unusual about my old browning barrel. I assume it measures 0.729" but don't have the right tool to measure it. I usually use a Briley light modified choke but don't know if it is the best as it works good enough so I quit testing. Some day I will trick my nephew into shooting about 20 rounds for me at the pattern board. He is one of those extra tough guys who would never admit he can't deal with the recoil. I used to be like that so he enjoys trying to one up me. Already told him about pattern testing 0000 buckshot loads in the 10 gauge BPS and he is all excited about trying it out.

[Bob Fleming]

Another variable:
I am casting with a Lee 0.595 mold from Track of the Wolf. Using the same alloy as for buckshot. Lead/Antimony alloy radiation shielding brick (at least 50 years old) which was tested (if I recall correctly) at 11 BHN. I alloy with Laurence #9 magnum shot for the arsenic. 1 1/2 pound of shot per 24 pound of brick. A trace of arsenic makes alloy heat treat harder. It may seem like a waste of good magnum shot but it is a good trick to make it heat treat harder.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...2/1/LEE-595-DC

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bob, sorry to bombard you with questions but I really do appreciate your coming in with all that experience to help guide us, Thank you.
Do you by any chance know what brand Magnum primers are on the newer Fiocchi hulls:
A. Remington 209 Premier STS Shot shell Primers
B. Federal 209A Magnum primer
C. CCI 209M Magnum primer
Or is it a newly developed Fiocchi Magnum Primer ?

Thanks for all your help.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Bob Fleming]

Don't know. Assumed they were factory primers.

[Bob Fleming]

For what it is worth, I am not an expert in this area.

So, please forgive me if I seem a bit too bold for someone who just recently got serious with buckshot and tri-ball.
I do not have the many years experience loading tri-ball that many here do.
I have been reloading shotshells since the mid 1970s.
Don't know if I have perfected it yet but what I am doing is working very well.

I am always interested in what you have to say as I have learned a lot here on castboolits.
I still find that misspelling boolits annoying but I deal with it. I hope you can deal with my attitude. I am not a people person. I don't intend to be insulting but realize I screw up frequently.