Loading Slugs So the *Look* Like Regular Cartidges... Just Huge

[nswilliams007]

So Ive somewhat recently built a little slug gun and have been playing around with what slugs it likes and what I can get decent results with. I've found a few but want to do some more experiments in stuff like rifled chokes and try my hand at reloading slugs for the first time, and had an idea, in all honesty purely for aesthetic purposes, using the MagTech full brass shotshells, which I have a few of for normal shot loads, and slugs like the AQ ones from Ballistic Products, could I load some that just look like those old large bore black powder cartridges? Like a 45-70 got ahold of a bench press. I would use powder loads for regular slug loading that I've been doing some research on and all the normal stuff with wads, spacers and cushions for the plastic bases they have, just for the look, it would tickle that little "hehe big boolit" voice we all have. If that is something that could be reasonably achieved, what kind of equipment would I need to get a proper crimp on the shell to hold the slug properly because it is far from aconventional loading technique so I may have to *make* the correct crimper from something made for a different cartridge or something of the sort. Any advice on how to do this the most right way is appreciated, and if it's just not realistically feasible, I get it, like I said, it's for the look to make me happy, not because I think it would be "better"

[lawdog941]

I'm not too familiar with the brass shotshells. I'm pretty sure if it could've been done by now, it would've. You would need a crimper for the brass onto the slug, but the slug might deform under that pressure, depending on your slug hardness. If you're just making dummy rounds to show, then no harm. Someone will be along with some expertise in this area.

[centershot]

RCBS makes, or used to make, a die set for 12 gauge brass hulls. You'll need a press threaded 1-1/4" inside diameter IIRC, such as an RCBS Rockchuker or a Lee Classic cast.

"I may have to *make* the correct crimper from something made for a different cartridge"

Hmmmm....If the crimper is all you want, you might be further ahead monetarily if you contact a local machine shop and have them make it, it would be a simple enough job and I'm thinking you'ld save money over the cost of the die set, they ain't cheap! Good luck, and please let us know how you make out!

[Barry54]

It will be an uphill battle if you actually want to load slugs and brass mag tech hulls with smokeless powder, and fire them.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...auge-from-hell

Here’s some more reading material for you.

[Hogtamer]

Was never happy with the plastic effort with my zinc slugs. Never could figure a decent crimp

[nswilliams007]

I'm not too familiar with the brass shotshells. I'm pretty sure if it could've been done by now, it would've. You would need a crimper for the brass onto the slug, but the slug might deform under that pressure, depending on your slug hardness. If you're just making dummy rounds to show, then no harm. Someone will be along with some expertise in this area.

So as far as lead slugs, idk if it's been done much or not, but there's a guy who makes some MASSIVE 12 gauge slugs rounds aptly named "12 gauge from hell" to produce something of a nitro express type deal using custom rifled barrels and jacketed slugs. Served as an inspiration but I like my shoulder too much to go that far, I'm just in it for the look of it lol

[nswilliams007]

RCBS makes, or used to make, a die set for 12 gauge brass hulls. You'll need a press threaded 1-1/4" inside diameter IIRC, such as an RCBS Rockchuker or a Lee Classic cast.

"I may have to *make* the correct crimper from something made for a different cartridge"

Hmmmm....If the crimper is all you want, you might be further ahead monetarily if you contact a local machine shop and have them make it, it would be a simple enough job and I'm thinking you'ld save money over the cost of the die set, they ain't cheap! Good luck, and please let us know how you make out!

The machine shop route is definitely a long term goal, for testing the concept Ive been toying with doing something more crude, just enough im not worried about it falling out, or finding a crimper made for an old cartridge with a very similar diameter, if all else fails, some kind of sealant like a thin super glue coat before seating the slug as a last ditch load testing thing.

[nswilliams007]

Was never happy with the plastic effort with my zinc slugs. Never could figure a decent crimp

What were you using to crimp? I would assume the biggest issue with the plastic hull is it just has to much give when the crimp is simply using friction to hold it in and not folds/rolls, but you essentially made the plastic hull version of what im trying to do

[Barry54]

So as far as lead slugs, idk if it's been done much or not, but there's a guy who makes some MASSIVE 12 gauge slugs rounds aptly named "12 gauge from hell" to produce something of a nitro express type deal using custom rifled barrels and jacketed slugs. Served as an inspiration but I like my shoulder too much to go that far, I'm just in it for the look of it lol

The principals are the same, weather you’re going after normal power or the 12 gauge FH power. Fit is king!

Or do you just want some dummy rounds to look at?

[lar45]

The 12gaFH was birthed on the Big Bore section of the AccurateReloading forums. Some major contributors were Rob The Gun Builder and Ed Hubbel. I believe that Ed has passed on, but has published a great deal of load developement information. I suggested the use of a 50BMG case to hold the pressure, but it's a rimless case. Some tried to put a thin washer on for a rim, but it wasn't durable enough. I turned the rim off a piece of brass down to the extractor groove, then made a thick washer out of brass round bar to fit over the base. I soldered mine in place, then put it back in the lathe and turned off everything that wasn't a 12ga rim. It worked great. Some of the other guys didn't want the heat on the case head, so they cut threads on the base of the case and inside of the thick washer to hold it all together and turned off the rest... This also proved reliable.
The 50BMG brass is much thicker and needs to be fireformed to make a straight walled case. The Magtech cases are much thinner.
In addition to the crimp die, you will probably need a sizer die for the body of the case once it's been fired.
You will probably need a tight fit and crimp for uniform ignition of the powder.
Depending on the slug used and how much nose will be protruding, you may have to cut the length of the cases to fit so the overall length will allow feeding, depending on your base gun's action...
As far as load data, you may have to look up Mr. Hubbel's data and compare to standard slug data and SWAG it?

You should post some pics of your slug gun and stuff, sounds interesting.

[K43]

RCBS sells dies for brass 12 ga. shells can can roll crimped the case. Otherwise, one could bevel a piece of pipe/thick tubing with a simple, standard cone shaped, chamfering bit in a drill or a muzzle crowing tool if you have it. Then polish a little. Light tap with a mallet would do the job on a shell, but you wouldn't have very consistent control.
Or, the old wire crimping pliers drilled out to the diameter you want the crimp to be.

[nswilliams007]

The principals are the same, weather you’re going after normal power or the 12 gauge FH power. Fit is king!

Or do you just want some dummy rounds to look at?

The goal is to have them functional, I've always had a soft spot for those big bore calibers and the feeling of just loading a big ole bullet into a gun is hard to beat, even if in this case, it's just a standard 12ga slug loaded weird

[nswilliams007]

The 12gaFH was birthed on the Big Bore section of the AccurateReloading forums. Some major contributors were Rob The Gun Builder and Ed Hubbel. I believe that Ed has passed on, but has published a great deal of load developement information. I suggested the use of a 50BMG case to hold the pressure, but it's a rimless case. Some tried to put a thin washer on for a rim, but it wasn't durable enough. I turned the rim off a piece of brass down to the extractor groove, then made a thick washer out of brass round bar to fit over the base. I soldered mine in place, then put it back in the lathe and turned off everything that wasn't a 12ga rim. It worked great. Some of the other guys didn't want the heat on the case head, so they cut threads on the base of the case and inside of the thick washer to hold it all together and turned off the rest... This also proved reliable.
The 50BMG brass is much thicker and needs to be fireformed to make a straight walled case. The Magtech cases are much thinner.
In addition to the crimp die, you will probably need a sizer die for the body of the case once it's been fired.
You will probably need a tight fit and crimp for uniform ignition of the powder.
Depending on the slug used and how much nose will be protruding, you may have to cut the length of the cases to fit so the overall length will allow feeding, depending on your base gun's action...
As far as load data, you may have to look up Mr. Hubbel's data and compare to standard slug data and SWAG it?

You should post some pics of your slug gun and stuff, sounds interesting.

I've dug up some sizing dies just for the cases I'm gonna use, which is convenient, and I'm hoping I can use standard 12ga loads as fast as powder and just use a bunch of cork of felt wads stacked above the seal to support the slug with the relatively huge amount of extra case I'll have doing this, but, as long as I don't go crazy with slug length I should be okay with OAL maximums, the cases as 2 1/2in long and I have a 3in chamber, so I should have 1/2in of play for my maximum length to cycle and a full inch to simply chamber and fire, so I have room to experiment with what looks good but still works. And once I get home I'll post a picture of the gun, it's nothing special ut I think it's neat

[nswilliams007]

RCBS sells dies for brass 12 ga. shells can can roll crimped the case. Otherwise, one could bevel a piece of pipe/thick tubing with a simple, standard cone shaped, chamfering bit in a drill or a muzzle crowing tool if you have it. Then polish a little. Light tap with a mallet would do the job on a shell, but you wouldn't have very consistent control.
Or, the old wire crimping pliers drilled out to the diameter you want the crimp to be.

I think the wire cutter path is my best bet, I tried to find crimp die for some old obscene.70ish cal cartridges, but that was a vain hope, the plan was to find one a little undersized and chuck it in a drill and use fine sand paper to bring it to size real gently, either that and find the needed specs and hit up a machine shop to get them to make me a die

[lar45]

I have an import 1887 12ga lever shotgun that I have been toying with making it into a slug gun.



The import 1887 with the forged receiver were proof tested, by white labs I think, to around 45kpsi.
The information used to be online, but I think the original importer went out of business. A google search of the wayback machine might have it.
Some of the early 1887s were made with either a cast or sintered receiver to save money in the manufacturing side. I believe that most of these were sent back and the forged receiver was made again.
This has been a few years ago, but I think I read that the sintered 1887s made their way to Australia?
I think a few of them were shipped in the US before it was noticed. Again, just trying to remember the details.
So if you have an 1887 that you want to hot rod, make sure it has the forged receiver.
I think some of the Italian companies also made an 1887, but I don't know how strong they are.
I think Ed Hubbel ran his 1887 with a longer barrel up to around 35kpsi and got some impressive velocities. This may be in the archives at Accuratereloading.com .

Mine came with a 20" cylinder choke smooth bore barrel. I think some of the newer ones come ready for screw in chokes??? and maybe longer barrels.
I have loaded some of the 1oz Lee slugs in plastic hulls with Bluedot and a roll crimp. They shoot pretty good at 50yds, but I would like to put a rifled barrel on it. I have a Savage take off rifled barrel that has a 3" chamber, and an ER Shaw rifled blank also.
My local smith that can normally build anything suggested that I take my project to a shotgun specialist. So it's been an the back burner for awhile...
He did make me this peep sight from scratch, cut a dovetail in the barrel and mounted it for me.







The plastic hulls are very easy to work with, but I do like the look of the brass ones.



I think the Mag Tech brass hulls need an 11ga fiber wad to seal over the powder.
The Lee slugs are sized to fit inside of a plastic wad. I think the plastic wads are a little small for a tight fit in the brass hulls, so you'll need something to take up the slack to give it a tight fit. You don't want your slugs rattleing around inside the front of the case, accuracy would be terrible.
I think Accurate used to make custom slug molds. I think there was another place also, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

[lar45]

For a crimp, I remember an article on Paradox guns and they used a 3 point stab crimp to hold the slug in place.

[lar45]

I looked through my favorite places and found CoyoteCap.com
It's been down for many years.
I don't remember the web archive website. I see it come up in some threads talking about old stuff.
Anybody know where it's located?

[lar45]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010124...coyotecap.com/

found it, but all the juicy details are gone

[Barry54]

I think the Mag Tech brass hulls need an 11ga fiber wad to seal over the powder.
The Lee slugs are sized to fit inside of a plastic wad. I think the plastic wads are a little small for a tight fit in the brass hulls, so you'll need something to take up the slack to give it a tight fit. You don't want your slugs rattleing around inside the front of the case, accuracy would be terrible.
I think Accurate used to make custom slug molds. I think there was another place also, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

This is one of the reasons I believe this will be an uphill battle. You’ll need an oversized slug to fit the mag tech brass. Then it’s going to get squeezed down in the forcing cone back to standard size.

Next all the reloading data is for black powder or substitutes using those brass hulls.

It’s said no substitutions for shotgun reloading. I think most of us bend that rule some, such as using replacement wads or using slugs with target load data.

Now here’s the ones that stand out to me with your plan to load slugs in brass hulls “for normal shot loads”

1 hull swap
2 primer swap (the 209 doesn’t fit those brass hulls)
3 all kinds of wad changes for gas seal and cushion section.
4 custom cast slug to fit those brass hulls. And if it’s going to be a large enough diameter and remain 1-1/8 ounce or less, it’s likely to be short or thin skirted.

Are you aware that wads have a tendency to push into the space of hollow base slugs?

I’m not trying to discourage you, but you might consider attempting slug loading in plastic hulls and getting the hang of that. And then try loading slugs in brass hulls.

Are those mag tech brass hulls “balloon head”? How much pressure are they designed for?

Would it be better to have brass hulls machined to match existing hulls internally so you’re somewhere closer to capacity and diameter of components designed for smokeless powder?

[nswilliams007]

For a crimp, I remember an article on Paradox guns and they used a 3 point stab crimp to hold the slug in place.

I was looking into something like this but I was worried about the non uniform deformation possibly causing clambering issues, like one of the raised points catching on the edge of the chamber or something while it's trying to feed, it's definitely something to test but I'm trying to kinda, reduce variables where I can a bit because I'm already getting into a bit of unknown territory which the whole thing. It's something to look at to maybe speed up loading the reloading process once I've reached a level of success with something more "basic" at least as much so as I can be going into uncharted territory for myself