Any advantage of jacketed?

[LIMPINGJ]

Are there any advantages of jacketed bullets over cast for hunting on once you get above 30 caliber? I can see a rough bore that won’t shoot cast or trying for high velocity with a 180 grain jacketed in the 35Rem. Just curious what others think.

[NSB]

This is the wrong board to offer any advantages of jacketed bullets on. It’s sort of blasphemy to even suggest that there are advantages. However, I’ll stick my neck out here. I’ll suggest that it’s a lot less problematic getting bullets that won’t shoot well that are jacketed than with cast. Cast CAN shoot very well, but there’s a lot of reasons why they won’t. To my way of thinking, cast are about half science and half art. When they’re good they’re good. When they’re bad, they’re really bad. Jacketed are just a lot less fussy, shoot well if the gun’s good, and kill with just as much authority as any cast. It’s just that casting bullets is like tying your own trout flies…it’s just more fun catching trout. Cast is about the process, not just the end result. I’ll quit right here.

[zarrinvz24]

This is the wrong board to offer any advantages of jacketed bullets on. It’s sort of blasphemy to even suggest that there are advantages. However, I’ll stick my neck out here. I’ll suggest that it’s a lot less problematic getting bullets that won’t shoot well that are jacketed than with cast. Cast CAN shoot very well, but there’s a lot of reasons why they won’t. To my way of thinking, cast are about half science and half art. When they’re good they’re good. When they’re bad, they’re really bad. Jacketed are just a lot less fussy, shoot well if the gun’s good, and kill with just as much authority as any cast. It’s just that casting bullets is like tying your own trout flies…it’s just more fun catching trout. Cast is about the process, not just the end result. I’ll quit right here.

Concur. There are limitations for cast lead bullets, but normally we are able to work around them or just accept those limitations outright. The way I see it, jacketed bullets are just another tool available to the savvy reloader.

[Pilgrim]

Lap your bore ! If you want to use condum bullets vs. Cast Boolits no harm done and you won't be banned from cast boolits (I don't think so anyway). An RCBS 35-200-FN (or equivalent) of an appropriate hardness will undoubtedly penetrate better than the 180 gr. condum bullet you mention. Unless the condum is a monolithic of course. Then the question is expansion. The cast will expand the same or better than the monilithic. Your choice of course. You are making the decision too complicated. If you want to shoot cast clean, up your barrel. Otherwise you don't have much of a choice ! If you shoot condums you will still have a barrel that may not be suitable for cast after the fact. IMO you are not going to get high velocity out of a .35 Rem unless the rifle is in a bolt action and maybe not then either. The .35 Rem is not a huge case so you would most likely use a faster powder than normal to get higher velocity and that in itself can be problematic.

[Delkal]

For hunting deer out to 100+ yards there is no advantage to jacketed. But for bigger/dangerous critters and long range hunting jacketed bullets are better. Sure you can down load a bigger cartridge to 35 Rem levels and be happy but getting another 600+ fps and twice the muzzle energy with a 35 Whelen can come in handy if you need it.

[Texas by God]

You said above .30 caliber.
In my 8x57, jacketed would be better but it has the velocity to drive them effectively.
In my 38-55 and 44-40 rifles, I don’t believe jacketed offers any advantage at all due to their lower velocity.
My 38-55 has never had a jacketed bullet anywhere near it.


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[Bazoo]

I think NSB nailed it.

The main advantage to jacketed is that because it is "buy and load" vs "build, experiment, perfect, load" it is a whole lot easier to get decent results with jacketed bullets.

With smaller bore, there are limits to velocity with cast, and unless you do a huge amount of experimentation it's hard to even come close to the standards.

[TNsailorman]

I shoot mostly cast in pistols and revolvers, seldom jacketed. I shoot cast in rifles in .43 Spanish and rarely in other calibers. Too much trouble with little or no gain. I no longer have a cast set up because of age and a heart condition. But I do understand the attraction of making your own ammo and the satisfaction when you get it right. At my age I mostly shoot air rifles/pistols. james

[FLINTNFIRE]

It is not taboo to talk about jacketed but this is a cast bullet site , I find both to be useful in different applications , 35 caliber and up I find cast to as useful unless I was going to Africa , maybe the larger bears or it was a distance thing .

My 30 calibers are mostly all jacketed , 8mm I have more use for cast , Have jacketed for larger but find in my black powder muzzle or cartridge guns that cast is what I will always use and in 35 or bigger smokeless rounds rifle or pistol it is always cast for me .

[indian joe]

I have a Browning 348w - I reckon falls about at the halfway mark in this argument - it does generate enough velocity to expand a jacketed slug properly and at the same time test your mettle with cast

except that the choice of jacketed is very limited
I loaded 200gr hornadys and went hog hunting, took on a big old boar pig at about 30 yards, the shoulder shot blew a chunk of meat about the size of my clawed hand out but didnt penetrate enough, he went down (rolled) and came up pretty quick swinging a front leg (thick skin from fighting and a fair bit of mud on him) second shot did it but I was pleased he went after his fleeing mates instead of me. I switched after that to 225 grain cast gas check and was much more pleased with the results - those hornadys would be dramatic on softer skin critters up to Sambar size I think but the cast got me better stops on a few big pigs

[Bazoo]

I have a Browning 348w - I reckon falls about at the halfway mark in this argument - it does generate enough velocity to expand a jacketed slug properly and at the same time test your mettle with cast

except that the choice of jacketed is very limited
I loaded 200gr hornadys and went hog hunting, took on a big old boar pig at about 30 yards, the shoulder shot blew a chunk of meat about the size of my clawed hand out but didnt penetrate enough, he went down (rolled) and came up pretty quick swinging a front leg (thick skin from fighting and a fair bit of mud on him) second shot did it but I was pleased he went after his fleeing mates instead of me. I switched after that to 225 grain cast gas check and was much more pleased with the results - those hornadys would be dramatic on softer skin critters up to Sambar size I think but the cast got me better stops on a few big pigs

A real-world report, thanks for sharing.

[Fitz]

Everyone talking about big game and Africa seems there was more animals taken almost to the extent of wiping them out before the metal jacket ever came about , not to mention here in North America , the lead bullet will successfully take ANY game or critter on the planet , That being said the bigger the bullet the better the hole.
Just my two cents worth.

James

[zarrinvz24]

Take a look at W. Karamojo Bell. He was a professional big-game hunter that preferred 7mm Mauser to all others, reputedly killing some 800 elephants with the cartridge. I disagree with the "bigger is better" argument, and rather would suggest that bullet placement is key.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Everyone talking about big game and Africa seems there was more animals taken almost to the extent of wiping them out before the metal jacket ever came about , not to mention here in North America , the lead bullet will successfully take ANY game or critter on the planet , That being said the bigger the bullet the better the hole.
Just my two cents worth.

James

I do concur that a big old lead slug and even black powder killed a lot of African animals and large game all around the earth , but doubt many P.h. and or countries are into the cast bullet of lead , regulations being what they are and knowledge .

[35 Rem]

Since this is the Lever gun subforum, I'm assuming we are talking only about cartridges above 30 caliber commonly chambered in lever action guns. That translates into lower velocities that work best for lead alloy bullets. I have shot all my deer the past two years with cast bullets in 32 Win Special and 35 Remington and I honestly believe my bullets are every bit as good if not superior to any available jacketed bullet. Reason being that you can buy a mold with a wider meplate than any jacketed bullet to put more energy on the critter faster AND with these two cartridges you can load to full velocity with lead. There really are no compromises when shooting cast in these two.

My 35 Remington load gives 2,050 ft/sec with a 200 grain bullet. The 32 Special load 2,135 ft/sec with 180 grains. Both rifles are 20" carbines.

[FergusonTO35]

I don't have lots of free time to get every single cartridge lined out with boolits in all my guns. I know it is quite doable, but I have enough demands on my time as is. So, all my rifles .30 caliber and below get jacketed. Everything I've shot with them goes dead no problem, and I seldom shoot more than a few hundred rounds a year of these cartridges anyway. Rifles over .30 caliber and all handguns get boolits, which is where they work best anyway!

[MT Gianni]

It is a lever gun forum. In my old BB94 356 the 180 gr Speer jacketed could be driven at 2700 fps and was deadly on Whitetails. Same with the 358 Browning and 200-225 gr bullets on Elk and Deer. I used jacketed Barnes for the Moose in the 308 BLR. So yes there is an advantage. At 35 Remington ranges, not enough to matter, IMO. Some goes for 30-30, 38-55, 375, 444 and 45-70.

[FergusonTO35]

It is a lever gun forum. In my old BB94 356 the 180 gr Speer jacketed could be driven at 2700 fps and was deadly on Whitetails. Same with the 358 Browning and 200-225 gr bullets on Elk and Deer. I used jacketed Barnes for the Moose in the 308 BLR. So yes there is an advantage. At 35 Remington ranges, not enough to matter, IMO. Some goes for 30-30, 38-55, 375, 444 and 45-70.

2700 fps? Was that a published load?

[Kestrel4k]

2700 fps? Was that a published load?

I'm seeing 2650 fps with AA2015 in Speer #13, from a 20" bbl; I've always been a littleover the 356Win.

[Bronco72]

Jacketed bullets ??? Get a rope ! Just kidding