Pedersoli hawkin double trigger issue.

[BBQJOE]

I just purchased a brand new Pedersoli Hawken from Dixie gun works, I haven't shot it yet.

Inspecting the thing led me to watch a few youtubes concerning the double trigger.

You'll see in the photo the first trigger screw, this is how it came to me; the screw is a long way out compared to all the videos on adjusting flintlocks that I've seen so far.

Pulling back the cock is a bit of work, but maybe no more than I suspect, but I've never shot a flintlock ever in my 63 years.

My issue at this point is the set trigger. I don't have a trigger pull scale, but I'd swear it's 100 lbs. You can see how far I've backed the second screw out to see if it lightens the pull any, and I'm afraid if I back it out any further, the screw will come out.

It's almost as if the geometry on the set trigger is wrong. When my finger is placed in the trigger it sits so high on it that there's no leverage, and you have to pull extremely hard, and when the trigger does set, it barely moves to get there.

As things are right now (and I haven't adjusted the first screw any yet) I get the set trigger pulled, and I barely have to rest my finger on the forward trigger and it releases, which is kinda cool, but almost seems a bit precarious to me on a safety level.

It feels to me like the set trigger needs to be heated and bent down some to obtain some leverage on it.

Being as this is my first one, I'd sure appreciate some feedback, or suggestions before I do anything else.

Thank you.

[LAGS]

I will have to dig out my Pedersoli trigger from a kit I have.
But most Set Triggers do have some kind of way to adjust the spring tension in the set trigger.
Like on the TC rifles.
People have a tendency to remount the set trigger spring and overtighten the mounting screws .
Then think they can lighten the pull by just screwing in the bottom set screw.

[BBQJOE]

I'll certainly wait and see what the replies have to offer before I go disassembling anything. And if there's no way to make the set trigger reasonable, it might have to go back, as much of a royal hassle as that may be.

[LAGS]

I pulled out the Pedersoli set trigger for my flint lock rifle kit.
It is the same set up as a TC style set trigger.
Turning in the small set screw on the bottom of the trigger plate will raise the spring to reduce the tension.
If that screw won’t go in far enough to get the Set Pull Tension reduced as light as you want it.
Then there are several other ways to get that spring pressure to reduce
Like loosening the set trigger mounting spring a little bit , or mount a shim under that spring to raise it up and lessen the tension.
Setting the Set Trigger is not supposed to be like 5 lb of pull. It does take a little bit of pull to set that trigger because the spring tension is what fires off the lever that trips off the sear.

[BBQJOE]

Sorry, but which small screw, the front or the rear?

[LAGS]

The rear one

[LAGS]

The front set screw is the one that lightens up the trigger pull on the front trigger.
How you set the trigger with the set .
First Set the trigger.
Then screw in the front set screw until it trips the Set.
Do it slowly each time.
Once you find out how far you have to turn in that front screw to get it to trip, then after it trips, back that screw off one half to one full turn.
Then try setting the rear trigger and see how sensitive the front trigger is when the set trigger is used.

[BBQJOE]

At this point I can tap the front trigger lightly with a pencil and it drops the cock.
Maybe I bought a gun built on a friday at 3pm.

[BBQJOE]

Also, Murphy firearms says loosening the rear screw relieves tension on the set trigger.

[LAGS]

If that front trigger is TOO sensitive .
Then back the front screw 1/4 turn each time until it is safe or what you like.
I have NEVER bought a rifle that the Trigger was set Perfect at the factory.
You have to do the fine tuning.

[LAGS]

Loosening the set trigger mounting screw lessen the tension

[BBQJOE]

It's beginning to seem that the more I dry fire it, and mess a bit with the screws, the better it seems to be getting.
Maybe I'll remove the lock and put just a dab of oil on the moving parts as well.

[LAGS]

I would suggest that you remove the trigger and look at what happens when you turn all the screws and how the screws work.
I set my Set Trigger with the trigger removed from the stock.
Then put the trigger back in and the only adjustment you would have to do for any more fine tuning would be the front set screw.
Yes
Oil or grease the trigger too when it is out of the stock.

[BBQJOE]

I would suggest that you remove the trigger and look at what happens when you turn all the screws and how the screws work.
I set my Set Trigger with the trigger removed from the stock.
Then put the trigger back in and the only adjustment you would have to do for any more fine tuning would be the front set screw.
Yes
Oil or grease the trigger too when it is out of the stock.

Dammit man, I almost wish you had said that first!
The videos just don't do justice to taking it apart yourself.
I'm not really afraid to do such, but I'm still haunted by that holly 4 bbl I took apart in my late teens where springs, little bearings and whatnot went spilling and flying all over the place.
Thank you so much for your posts! I think I got her tuned up pretty nicely now.
Fired my first shot in the dark last night, and all went well!

Thanks again Lags!

[LAGS]

In some cases it is hard to direct someone in what or how to do it if you don’t know exactly where they are on the repair or if they are willing to do certain things.
I started doing gunsmithing before they ever invented home computers or Videos.
I just worked out everything myself since no one else around did these kind of things.
But with today’s communications it is easy to get more information that you need.
There are plenty of guys like me that are willing to help you learn things.
Videos are great from what I hear. But I have Never watched one on any gun repairs.

[Boerrancher]

I’ve had and still have a Pedersoli, and yes, that set trigger is harder than some, which I personally don’t mind, and actually prefer, for a hunting rifle. Weather I am hunting deer or squirrels or anything in between I like the regular trigger pull at about 8-10 lbs, and the set, at about 2-2 1/2 lbs. When I get to where I am going to sit, I take the hammer to full cock. Then when I see a deer, or squirrel I raise the rifle, set the trigger and take the shot. In the cool crisp early morning hours the clunk of a large heavy lock being cocked has spooked a deer or two, unlike the light click of the trigger being set.

[LAGS]

Those “heavy” set triggers on most rifles , can be reworked to make it lighter and quieter
But I don’t expect every shooter to do things like that without someone giving them lots of different information.
But most of the fine tuning can be done at home.
The fine tuning on the trigger can also improve accuracy but mostly in Consistancy on every shot by a consistant trigger pull.

[Boerrancher]

Those “heavy” set triggers on most rifles , can be reworked to make it lighter and quieter
But I don’t expect every shooter to do things like that without someone giving them lots of different information.
But most of the fine tuning can be done at home.
The fine tuning on the trigger can also improve accuracy but mostly in Consistancy on every shot by a consistant trigger pull.

I just remembered something, I am sure it would have to be made, but a trigger shoe on the rear trigger would probably help a lot. On those Pedersoli triggers especially they are very thin, and actually wider on the back edge than where your finger sets. I was playing with my 32 cal Frontier, and if one doesn’t get the angle/direction of pull just right on the rear trigger, it is noticeably uncomfortable. I never noticed this until yesterday, playing with it, because I don’t set the trigger until the rifle is fully mounted and I am aligning the sights, which causes a straight rearward and slightly downward pull. When carrying it at the ready, both low or high, the pull is more upward and to slightly to the rear making it very hard and uncomfortable. I am sure that some of that could be relieved slightly, but I’m not sure all of it can because of the amount of drop in the stock, and the way the trigger itself is shaped and made.

This thread has been a great exercise for me in physics and inertia. Just studying the Pedersoli as compared to several of my other rifles, and comparing the angles required to comfortably pull the set trigger has been interesting to say the least. I don’t have a trigger gauge, but comparing the Pedersoli to the Investarms trigger I completely reworked and had to remake parts for, which is now as smooth as glass, their is little difference in the amount of effort required to pull the when pulled on a straight line parallel to the angle of drop, or the line made by the bottom edge of the stock, deviate from that angle and both become surprisingly hard. Because of how the stock is made on the Pedersoli with more drop, it is not as easily pulled parallel to the drop when not mounted to the shoulder, forcing one to pull it at an odd angle. Now I know if I ever build a custom rifle or Fowler from scratch what it’s going to look like, thanks to this little experiment.

[LAGS]

@ boerrancher
I am glad my post inspired you to check out your set triggers .
I hope it gets others to look at theirs and how they prefer to use or set the set triggers.
Not all shooters do things the exact way as others when setting their triggers.
Like you said, there are many ways you can do it , and the type of rifle factors into your liking or need.
Some of my rifles I set the trigger first.
Then when I spot my target or game , I then cock the hammer back.
Others I cock the hammer back first.
Then set the set trigger and position the rifle to my shoulder.
It all depends on your situation and like you said, the type of rifle.
But there are many things you can do to closely Tune the set triggers so they all work closer to the way each works so they work better or with more comfort to the way you want to operate them .

[BBQJOE]

I pulled the trigger group and lock as Lags suggested, and it's very apparent how it all works. I was able to make the set trigger a little easier to operate, and got the front trigger to a very nice reasonable pull.
It still seems to me that if one could cut/grind maybe 1/4 inch off the tip of the set trigger making the room for it, and bending it downward some, it would completely change the geometry of the leverage of the pull.
The thing is, I have no idea what the metal is composing the triggers. Is it a spring steel, or is it just a hardened high carbon, or does anyone know?
Could it just outright be bent, or would it just snap? Could it be heated to be bent?
Does anyone have any ideas because this remedy would solve everything related to the odd crazy angle of this set trigger and make it a breeze to operate.