Imman Meffert Suhl single shot target rifle

[Tatume]

I would cast them much softer than that. Maybe even cut the range scrap with pure lead. Low pressure, low velocity rifle loads benefit from easily conforming to the interior of the barrel. If you can't nick the bullet with your thumbnail it's probably too hard for optimum accuracy.

Also, try using your bullets without gas checks and without sizing. Just cast, hand lube, and load them.

[JiriK]

Thanks, Tatume
I cast handful of those bullets with 50-50 mixture. Came out .324" and 167gr.
Maybe better start from soft lead and make harder if needed.
I´ll cast some bullets tomorrow from airgun range scrap, it is harder than pure lead but softer than 22 range scrap.

edit: I plan to shoot without gas checks as those are not allowed in the competition I intend to use this rifle in.

[K43]

Neato nifty rifle. I'm just following to see your shooting progress.

[JiriK]

First shots fired today with that rifle.
Loads: 25-35Win brass converted to 8.15x46R. CCI #200 LR primer and Swiss no2 black powder.
Tested:
31gr with .22 range scrap bullet (ca. 422m/s)
26gr with .22 range scrap bullet
26gr with airgun lead bullet
23gr with airgun lead bullet (ca. 357m/s)
All bullets unsized (as I don´t have calibrating die for this size)
Lube was Beeswax/foot oil mixture.
Little bit of "Amarantti" (lat. Amaranthus) as filler in the cartridge case with smaller powder charges.

Speed readings were all over the place. Up to 620m/s. Maybe error, I have cheap aliexpress chronometer.

Well.. Gun didn´t blow up and holes in the target (at 50m) were round. But brass looks odd.
Most of the primers that stayed in brass were very loose. Primers were hard to insert, too little chamfer on the cartridge case.

[JiriK]

I loaded another test batch of black powder 8.15x46R last night and tested them today.
Think the main reason why primers fell and primer pockets came loose was that I annealed whole cases.
Base of cartridge case got soft and deformed when firing.. Learn something new every day

I bought more Winchester 25-35Win brass and annealed only necks this time.
Primers stayed in place during firing and offered normal resistance when decapping.

Made other changes too:
* Loads of 20gr, 23gr and 25gr of Swiss no3 powder (first time it was no2 powder)
* Made powder compressing tool. Just to check that there is enough powder and filler before inserting bullet in the case.
* Made a bullet sizing die .317"
That size is closer to what the barrel is. It is also good size to seat bullet to FL sized case that is sized without the expander mandrel.
I flared the case mouth using some generic Lee flaring die.

This time I got reasonable readings:
20gr loads avg 312m/s
23gr loads avg 337m/s
25gr loads avg 358m/s

Bullets were cast with RCBS .32-170-FN mould, p/n 82024.
Cast from air gun lead came out 185gr, 22 range scrap 184gr, 50-50 Linotype-22 scrap: 168gr.
Length of bullet is ca. 0.91".

Twist of barrel rifling is 1 revolution / 370mm or 14.5"

Do you know, what might be optimal velocity for this type of rifle?
I think a bullet with more grease grooves might be better. At least I saw a picture of old cartridges online and those bullets had many thin grease grooves ( https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...owder/58896/12 )

So, 25-35Win cases can be used to make 8.15x46R.
6.5x52R can be used too, I received two converted cases with loading dies.
Edit: Just annealed and sized 25 25-35 cases. 19 of them remained usable, expanding the neck is bit radical. So those can be used but yield is low. I may buy 30-30 or other brass next..
Also think that pure lead or air gun lead are too soft for this application (at least when bullets are sized .317")

[JiriK]

I´v been testing loads lately. Removed iron sights from rifle (all were screwed on) and installed scope.
Rifle has 15mm wide dovetail so I had to bubba the 11mm scope mounts on, but they seem to hold.
Sadly I have to remove scope every time for cleaning as bolt can not be removed if scope is there.
Anyways, I shot 11 rounds two days ago, sighting in the scope and started testing loads. Then the firing pin broke

I asked advice from a friend who is a goldsmith by training and has made lots of metalwork.
By his recommendations I bought a 12.9 strength M10 dowel bolt and turned two new firing pins from it.
Hardening might be a bit lacking as I don´t have a oxy-acetylene torch, only small propane-butane. First firing pin worked ok today.

I read online that 8.15x46R rifles with the rifling twist mine has work better with lighter bullets. Say 150gr or less.
So I took eight bullets and cut 3,5mm off the base.
* Four bullets cast from range scrap (group in center of target) and
* Four bullets cast from 50-50 linotype-range scrap lead, group top of the black dot.
All sized .317" and lubed with beeswax/footoil mixture.

Bit small sample but promising. Other target was shot with bullet cast from range scrap lead, just sized and greased.
Shooting distance has been 50m so far. Maybe it is time to move to 100m range (competition distance)

Now looking for bullet mould that produces lighter bullet with more space for grease and without thinned GC base. Preferrably with period correct tip shape. I heard today that placing a cardboard disc between bullet and powder might improve accuracy. One more experienced shooter uses that in longer distances. What do you think, what might be worth testing next?

Ordered a book about 8.15x46R cartridge from Germany. We´ll see what it has to say..

Also testing 45Colt revolver loads for 25m competition shooting. Borrowed an Uberti Cattleman revolver, 140mm barrel. Inclined to buying it.

[JSnover]

I´d be surprised if 8.15x46R brass could be found here in Finland.
Dies and RWS brass can be ordered from Germany.

30-30Win brass (/cartridges) is available locally but I need to get the dies first.
What other options for "raw material brass" there is to form 8.15x46R?

I bought some new bras from Huntington Die a couple of years ago. It turned out to be Norma brass, so it may not be as rare as you think.

[JSnover]

I did some searching last year and couldn't confirm the use of black powder in the 8.15x46R, back in the 1890s. You can load black -obviously- but it may have been a smokeless catridge from the beginning.

[JiriK]

I did some searching last year and couldn't confirm the use of black powder in the 8.15x46R, back in the 1890s. You can load black -obviously- but it may have been a smokeless catridge from the beginning.

My rifle doesn´t have proofmarks for smokeless so black it is. (Maybe I can make a light load and test with smokeless anyways..)

I have a book loaned from local library, "Messinkihylsyisten keskisytytyspatruunoiden jälleenlataus" by Esa Paananen.
It has two pages for 8.15x46R.
First some info, including dimensions. I use trim to length specified: 46.30mm.
Info page says that "cartridge was originally a black powder loaded lead bullet cartridge that was manufactured by many companies"

Then other page has load data using Vihtavuori powders: N350, N110, N120 and N130

We shall see what that german book about 8.15x46R knows about history of the ctg.

Did Huntington Die manufacture rare brass? Or convert from other brass? Can you post a picture of your brass?

[relics6165]

If you are using 25-35 cases to make your brass, wouldn't 30-30 cases be easier, and maybe cheaper? Over here 25-35 cases are hard to find.

[JiriK]

If you are using 25-35 cases to make your brass, wouldn't 30-30 cases be easier, and maybe cheaper? Over here 25-35 cases are hard to find.

I received 25-35 cases with the reloading dies I bought. So I bought more of those.

I have purchased 30-30 cases, should arrive some time next week.
Also found some RWS 8.15x46R cases from Spain. Had to ask fellow finnish black powder shooters to help cause the store wouldn´t even answer my messages.
Brass should be on its way to Finland from MLAIC World championships (Italy) now.

[JSnover]

My rifle doesn´t have proofmarks for smokeless so black it is. (Maybe I can make a light load and test with smokeless anyways..)

I have a book loaned from local library, "Messinkihylsyisten keskisytytyspatruunoiden jälleenlataus" by Esa Paananen.
It has two pages for 8.15x46R.
First some info, including dimensions. I use trim to length specified: 46.30mm.
Info page says that "cartridge was originally a black powder loaded lead bullet cartridge that was manufactured by many companies"

Then other page has load data using Vihtavuori powders: N350, N110, N120 and N130

We shall see what that german book about 8.15x46R knows about history of the ctg.

Did Huntington Die manufacture rare brass? Or convert from other brass? Can you post a picture of your brass?

Thank you, that's first credible reference I've seen regarding BP in those rifles or that cartridge. I'll post pictures of the brass and the box as soon as I can.

[JSnover]

Sorry for the memory lapse; it was RWS, not Norma.