30 carbine dies

[ebb]

Finally got some time to try and load some 30 carbine ammo. I am not doing some thing right. Is the bullet seater like other more modern RCBS dies in that it will seat a bullet and crimp the case at the same time? I have tried to get it to do both operations as I do with 38spec and 357 mag, but not having any luck. Just when i think I have it all adjusted right the nest case con=mes out with the OAL wrong. Can I seat a bullet and crimp with the die the set came with or do i need a dedicated crimp die? I think after dinner I will try to adjust the seater die with a gap above the shell holder so the crimp function will not work and adjust the seating depth with the stem. The after I have done all my seating take the seater stem out and adjust the die to crimp???? when trying to do both at the same time I get too long OAL and then when I readjust the depth i get donuts bulges around the case.

[Shiloh]

Could be a case mouth belling die or a crimp die.

Shiloh

[Texas by God]

Set your bullet depth first with the seating stem lowered- a little at a time.
Once you have that, raise the stem to where it won’t contact the bullet, and screw the seating die body down to where it turns the belled case back to straight- no further.
Tighten the lock ring,then adjust the seating stem down to touch the bullet.
I set my .30 Carbine dies(Lee) like that years ago and have no problems getting good ammo with 110 gr FMJ, 110gr JSP, or the Lee C309-113F cast bullet.


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[ebb]

I am going to try that Texas. I have been thinking about this and neck is so tight the bullet as it is being seated is wrinkling the case and making bulges in the case as it is pushed in. I think the sizing die may be sizing it too small? I will try and seat a few bullets with the die 1/8th above the shell holder so no crimping is involved. If I can seat the bullets and not wrinkle the case, I will seat all the bullets and crimp in a separate trip through the die. A friend tells me maybe a little sizing die wax on each bullet to lube so they seat easier. Worst case it the case is sized too small maybe I need to use an expandle iron from my K&M neck turning set to open the neck a little more than what the sizing die leaves it. Does any of that make any sense?

[Taterhead]

I am going to try that Texas. I have been thinking about this and neck is so tight the bullet as it is being seated is wrinkling the case and making bulges in the case as it is pushed in. I think the sizing die may be sizing it too small? I will try and seat a few bullets with the die 1/8th above the shell holder so no crimping is involved. If I can seat the bullets and not wrinkle the case, I will seat all the bullets and crimp in a separate trip through the die. A friend tells me maybe a little sizing die wax on each bullet to lube so they seat easier. Worst case it the case is sized too small maybe I need to use an expandle iron from my K&M neck turning set to open the neck a little more than what the sizing die leaves it. Does any of that make any sense?

If the sizing die is undersized, the expander die should open the neck interior diameter to the correct dimension. For the sake of removing any doubt, I'm not referring to case mouth flare. I'm referring to the part of the expander shank that goes down into the case neck. If that shank is about 2 thou less than bullet diameter, then good-to-go.

If the expander plug is properly sized, and cases are being crushed upon seating, that would indicate that the die body of the seater is turned too far down and is imparting a lot of crimp while the bullet is seating and thereby binding things up.

Texas by God stated the right procedure. I would recommend inserting one step at the beginning. Back out the seating stem way out. Turn the die body down until it contacts the case. Then turn it out a full turn. That will ensure that there is zero crimp interference when setting the seating dept. Then proceed as TbG detailed.

Also, no need for an extreme crimp.

No need to use case lube on the bullets. Could introduce yet more problems.

[Taterhead]

To add to my previous post, here are photos of neck expander plugs. The black one on the left is an RCBS. The hard-to-see section of the shank below the conical portion is an M-Step for flaring the case mouth. Older expanders did not have the M step, and the conical portion opened the case mouth. The part below that is sized 2 thousandths of an inch below nominal bullet diameter to set the correct neck interior diameter and therefore neck tension. It is typical for sizing dies to undersize the interior diameter of necks. That ensures that a wide variety of brass will be sufficiently sized. The expander shank then opens up the neck ID and makes it round. Photo for a visual:



I strongly suspect it is too much crimp from the seater die body that is the issue. We've all been there at some point.

[ebb]

Thanks for the pictures! My dies are an RCBS set I bought off Ebay and are very old. The decap does not happen on the sizing die like modern dies. The black die on the left of your picture that bells the case mouth, has a decap pin in it on my dies. But while I was looking at the dies it dawned on me that problem cases are about 40 that were in the batch my friend gave me and were already primed and sized. I have no idea if they were done right or not. I need to disassemble them and start over, or use the rest of the cases that I sized. I pushed the bell die into the sized cases and it was very tight, It this point I don't know if the cases I've been having trouble with and sized too much or if the die has the ability to size them the right size. Bullet is .308what should the sized neck measure inside? Yea I know never again on E bay. Thanks all of you that have helped I've been reloading for years but not too much on pistols or straight wall cases, and never with dies that don't size and decap in the same die

[Taterhead]

Thanks for the pictures! My dies are an RCBS set I bought off Ebay and are very old. The decap does not happen on the sizing die like modern dies. The black die on the left of your picture that bells the case mouth, has a decap pin in it on my dies. But while I was looking at the dies it dawned on me that problem cases are about 40 that were in the batch my friend gave me and were already primed and sized. I have no idea if they were done right or not. I need to disassemble them and start over, or use the rest of the cases that I sized. I pushed the bell die into the sized cases and it was very tight, It this point I don't know if the cases I've been having trouble with and sized too much or if the die has the ability to size them the right size. Bullet is .308what should the sized neck measure inside? Yea I know never again on E bay. Thanks all of you that have helped I've been reloading for years but not too much on pistols or straight wall cases, and never with dies that don't size and decap in the same die

The old style RCBS dies work just fine in my experience. I've had sets from the mid 70s.

It is tough to measure the ID of a case neck. If you measure the lower shank of the expander plug it will likely be about .306". That's about right. To know if the sizer is sufficiently working size a case. Measure the OD of the neck. Then use the expander. The OD of the neck will likely grow a touch. Remember that the sizer undersizes and the expander opens the ID. Be sure not to measure the case mouth because we are interested in the neck diameters not case mouth flare.

FWIW of your sizing is threaded at the top it can be retrofitted with a decap assembly. RCBS gave me a couple for free. Then you cam remove the decap pin from the expander.

[ebb]

The expander plug where it would size the neck on my dies measures .305. The cases in my batch that came with primers in place have a neck inside dia of .297 and the cases I sized have a neck dia of .302. This bunch of brass was bought at a yard sale by a friend that bought all of the reloading stuff the seller had. I sold some lever gun 32-20 brass, bullets and dies and made him much more money than he paid for all of it and he gave me the rest. The primed cases were in a plastic block that factory 30 carbine ammo came in and were shrink wrapped to hold them in the block. There is no telling how long ago they were sized and primed, but I know they were not sized with the dies I own now. I am going to see if I can shoot the 15 I have loaded as I have tried to resize a few and they are so bulged in so many places that they need fire formed before they will not be so beat up. I will try tonight to see if the cases I sized can be loaded and not take so much force to seat a bullet, and I am going to set the seater die up high enough so it will not do any crimping. Hopefully it will not rain anymore tonight, many spots in the yard were ankle deep when we got home last night and it was still raining then. Thanks for your help!

[Taterhead]

The expander plug where it would size the neck on my dies measures .305. The cases in my batch that came with primers in place have a neck inside dia of .297 and the cases I sized have a neck dia of .302. This bunch of brass was bought at a yard sale by a friend that bought all of the reloading stuff the seller had. I sold some lever gun 32-20 brass, bullets and dies and made him much more money than he paid for all of it and he gave me the rest. The primed cases were in a plastic block that factory 30 carbine ammo came in and were shrink wrapped to hold them in the block. There is no telling how long ago they were sized and primed, but I know they were not sized with the dies I own now. I am going to see if I can shoot the 15 I have loaded as I have tried to resize a few and they are so bulged in so many places that they need fire formed before they will not be so beat up. I will try tonight to see if the cases I sized can be loaded and not take so much force to seat a bullet, and I am going to set the seater die up high enough so it will not do any crimping. Hopefully it will not rain anymore tonight, many spots in the yard were ankle deep when we got home last night and it was still raining then. Thanks for your help!

Recommend that you do the following. Ensure all the cases are sized (even the primed ones). Then be sure to use the expander die. 297 and .302 are far too tight. The expander will open those interior diameters a lot. For those cases with existing primers, simply remove the decap pin before expanding. Setting the expander to open the case mouth a little would help too. .

[Rapier]

The 30 carbine is a bit more complicated than it looks to load. As the case head-spaces on the case mouth and the case grows with near every single firing, it takes more care to reload. With cast, it adds a bit of complication as you can get lead rings at the mouth, thus setting the bolt back slightly and causing lead ring buildup in the chamber.
So trim the brass, resize the brass, expand the case mouth, powder, insert cast bullet, seat to proper length, make dummy, taper crimp to a straight mouth, two seating and crimping steps. Then you will not get a shaved lead ring or problems with case length.

I lost a bolt to a lead ring, worn disconnect, that allowed the bolt to fire slightly out of battery, broke one lug off, so it is not an I think deal, I found out the hard way, many years ago. I use the 130 Lyman plain base mould by the way. Plus the RCBS pro trim with 3 way cutters, and a Dillon 550, makes all this easy.