New barrels for my CVA 50 cal Hawken

[Boerrancher]

I came across a 54 cal barrel for my worn out and pitted CVA Hawken 50 cal. I was going to have it rebored to a 54 but why when I can get a 54 cal ready to go? It is new in the white for $80. The same gentlemen happens to also have the 12 gage barrel with the screw in chokes for $150. I’ve been buying odds and ends parts from this fella for years. He use to build a lot of custom guns and is selling off his stuff. I’m really looking forward to turkey hunting this fall with a 12 ga Hawken Flintlock.

[LAGS]

That is a good price on that barrel.
But also consider having that .50 ReBored to .54 or even relined to maybe .36 to use for squirrel or rabbit hunting. One rifle with lots of different barrels is something nice to have.

[Boerrancher]

That is a good price on that barrel.
But also consider having that .50 ReBored to .54 or even relined to maybe .36 to use for squirrel or rabbit hunting. One rifle with lots of different barrels is something nice to have.

I may consider having it relined to a 40 or a 45. I don’t have either of those. I have a 36 Hawken and rather enjoy it, or have it bored to a 58 who knows. I’m really interested in the shotgun barrel. I think it will be unique.

[LAGS]

I would consider the .40 since that is one caliber I don’t have.

[Boerrancher]

Holy crap! Old side lock CVA parts are friggin expensive! It’s costing me more for the under rib, barrel lug, and sights, than the new barrel is. With shipping the 54 cal barrel is going to run me $100. The other parts with shipping are going to cost twice that. I only paid $50 for the dang rifle to begin with, and I’m going to have $300 in the new barrel alone. For all you current builders, does that seem about right?

Looking at it from another perspective, 4 years ago I paid $700 for a 6.5 Grendel barrel to replace the one I shot out on my Mini Hawa Precision rifle, so Yeah I guess at $300 for a complete CVA barrel is pretty cheap.

[Delkal]

Not sure about CVA but the Thompson Center 54 cal Hawkens have a thicker barrel and will not fit in a 50 cal stock. I would also be concerned that boring out a 50 cal would make the walls to thin so do some research.

[longbow]

The patent breech may give you some grief too. The patent breech plug is not designed to be removed and re-installed.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...up%20perfectly.

Longbow

[Boerrancher]

Not sure about CVA but the Thompson Center 54 cal Hawkens have a thicker barrel and will not fit in a 50 cal stock. I would also be concerned that boring out a 50 cal would make the walls to thin so do some research.

This barrel will fit, it is a new as in never been installed on a rifle barrel. That is 1” across the flats and is the same length, exactly like the .50 that is on it now. As far as boring one “too thin” you’ve never owned a fowling piece or a smoothbore of any kind have you? I also know that this barrel was made the same year as my rifle, so yes it will fit, as will the 12 ga barrel, but I may pass on the 12 gauge for now considering the cost of finishing the barrel out.

[Boerrancher]

The patent breech may give you some grief too. The patent breech plug is not designed to be removed and re-installed.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...up%20perfectly.

Longbow

I fully understand about the patent breech, but have pulled them before on CVA’s. Since this is a truly a new never fired barrel, I am going to pull it and open it up more. I don’t mind a patent breech, but CVA and Traditions are ridiculous, at a 0.200 inch diameter. I plan on opening it up just enough that I can insert a new 30 cal bore brush in it and not have to worry about hanging it up in there, like I have done on a couple others in the past.

[BS-BP]

into it for $300? thats a deal since that 12ga barrel is worth that.

[Boerrancher]

into it for $300? thats a deal since that 12ga barrel is worth that.

I had to put off buying that one from him until next month. I just couldn’t afford both barrels and all the hardware. I was doing good 4 years ago. The wife and I had savings, we were making it on her job, and my retirement. Now the savings is gone, we live paycheck to paycheck, and we buy half as much as we did because we can’t afford it. I’m starting to look forward to the next Bunker Hill. I am tired of going without when in reality I should be able to travel and enjoy life. Just disgusted right now.

[fastdadio]

This barrel will fit, it is a new as in never been installed on a rifle barrel. That is 1” across the flats and is the same length, exactly like the .50 that is on it now. As far as boring one “too thin” you’ve never owned a fowling piece or a smoothbore of any kind have you? I also know that this barrel was made the same year as my rifle, so yes it will fit, as will the 12 ga barrel, but I may pass on the 12 gauge for now considering the cost of finishing the barrel out.

Since you have a new .54 cal rifle barrel, bore the pitted .50 out to .550 smooth bore which is 28 gauge and then you'll have your shotgun.

[longbow]

Okay... let me in on the secret then if you would. I have read different opinions before on the patent breech systems and I think I understand how they work but cannot understand why they can't be taken apart then reassembled again... or so the manufacturers say.

Correct me if I am wrong here but from what I have found the breech plug is screwed in then the barrel is drilled through into the breech plug then tapped for the bolster. Is that correct?

So disassembly would be to unscrew the bolster then the breech plug. To reassemble all you should need to worry about is getting the breech plug back in place so the bolster will screw back in.

On top oi that I have read that some patent breechs are a "friction fit" on the threads for the breech plug as they are not intended to be removed (why not?). Is that the issue? Yet you said you have removed them. Was the breech plug reusable after you removed it or were threads damaged?

I have no problem with the idea of the patent breech but I don't like the non-removable breech plug.

I have a CVA Hawken percussion .50 cal. I built from a kit and I would like to be able to removed the breech plug. I can't say I have had to but I would like to be able to to ensure the bore and breech are clean.

Anyway, if it can be done without destroying things I would like to do it.

Thanks,
Longbow

[LAGS]

I have taken several CVA breech plugs out of the barrels.
First you have to remove the nipple drum or a flash hole liner before you try to unscrew the breech plug.
I clamp my barrel in my barrel blocks on a barrel vise and not a vise.
The hooked breech plug on the CVA’s is so much smaller that it is hard to get a wrench to unscrew the plug.
Now sometimes, I see that the breech plug or barrel threads are deformed a bit.
Either from rusting , or from the tapped hole from the nipple drum fouling up the barrel threads.
A couple I rethreaded the barrel and installed a new breech plug with threads that match what I machined the barrel out to.
Those types of barrels can be worked or Re Worked with the right tools.
But I can see why most gunsmiths will not do CVA or similar style barrels with that kind of breech plug set up.
Or they will have to charge you more if things screw up in there processing while the are doing the basics.
A couple of CVA style barrels in did had the threads strip out so much from rust that I had to cut the back end off the barrel and rethread it for a new breech plug.
Then the barrel was moved to the rear about 1” to 1.5” so it changed lots of things to the barrel channel of the stock that caused more work like the barrel wedge location or under barrel rib and nose cap on the stock.
But CVA barrels can be reworked if you have the right tools and patients to work thing slowly.

[longbow]

Okay, thanks for that,

It seems to me that it might be easier to buy a new barrel if the threads are not good after removing the breechplug. That way the under barrel rib and wedges can be put in the same place.

I don't have to remove it but would like to be able to so I can inspect and make sure things aren't going bad in there. I always clean the barrel with hot soapy water then dry and oil it but I can't get to the breech plug threads obviously.

Fastdadio has a good idea there but I'd go larger. If you don't have access to a lathe a local machine shop could likely bore and ream to 0.625" with standard tooling and a 5/8" reamer. Might be cheaper than a gunsmith and it would be a little larger than 20 ga. Using an expansion reamer they could make it exactly 20 ga. I haven't seen a 12 ga. barrel for the CVA's but if there is enough meat there then it could be bored to 12 ga. too.

Longbow

[LAGS]

The CVA or Traditions both can have problems if you pull the breech plug.
But I have had issues with some of the Thompson Centers too.
I have had a couple strip out when being removed.
Same with the CVA’s and other barrels , the problem is from Rust in the barrel or the barrel being old and ignored for years.
But I take plenty of chances to Re Build used barrels.
So far all of the barrel ended up being worked out even if they had to be modified from original specs.

[Boerrancher]

The last CVA breech plug I pulled was over the winter. It was a caplock with a drum. I put in an old nipple and completely plugged it with JB weld and let it cure before installing it. Then I put the barrel in the corner of my shop and filled it half full of WD40 and plugged it at the muzzle with a rubber plug, and forgot about it for a month with the exception of every so often gently tapping on it with a wrench wrapped in a bit of electrical tape just for a bit of vibration. After 4 weeks I punched a small timing mark on the drum and barrel so I could get them exactly right when I put them back together. I locked the barrel in a vice and put leather pads on the jaws of a 24” pipe wrench and went to cranking. The drum came out easier than I thought. My next problem was the button breech plug. It went in the vice and I put a 1” 6pt boxed end wrench I use on my big farm tractor to turn the barrel. I would torque up on it and tap the barrel flats with a small brass hammer. It finally broke lose. I opened up the Holes on the patent breech to roughly a 0.312 instead of the standard CVA and Traditions 0.20 dia, and put it all back together. Works great easier to clean. Do not attempt it if you don’t have the capabilities to make new parts, because you are not buying them.

I have an early 80’s CVA Hawken flintlock that was so rusted the bore was almost rusted shut at the muzzle, plus it had a stuck ball halfway down. Once I got it cleaned up I pulled the vent liner expecting the patent breech to be rusted shut. It cleaned up easy with a 17 cal bore brush and a pipe cleaner, as it only had some surface rust.

[LAGS]

Glad to hear that you were able to tear things down with success.
I too have heard that Hoyt doesn’t do the CVA barrels.
But if you have the breech plug pulled then it might make that barrel acceptable for him to work on.
If his work is what you are considering, Just give him a call and see what he will do for you.

[greyhawk]

Not sure about CVA but the Thompson Center 54 cal Hawkens have a thicker barrel and will not fit in a 50 cal stock. I would also be concerned that boring out a 50 cal would make the walls to thin so do some research.

CVA missouri, hawken, etc (the 28inch short stock barrels) 15/16" across the flats in all calibres 45,50,54)
a 54 Hawken barrel on a light beechwood stock makes a dandy woods rifle - about 7 pounds loaded - (bites both ends if you load it up)

[greyhawk]

Okay... let me in on the secret then if you would. I have read different opinions before on the patent breech systems and I think I understand how they work but cannot understand why they can't be taken apart then reassembled again... or so the manufacturers say.

Correct me if I am wrong here but from what I have found the breech plug is screwed in then the barrel is drilled through into the breech plug then tapped for the bolster. Is that correct?

So disassembly would be to unscrew the bolster then the breech plug. To reassemble all you should need to worry about is getting the breech plug back in place so the bolster will screw back in.

On top oi that I have read that some patent breechs are a "friction fit" on the threads for the breech plug as they are not intended to be removed (why not?). Is that the issue? Yet you said you have removed them. Was the breech plug reusable after you removed it or were threads damaged?

I have no problem with the idea of the patent breech but I don't like the non-removable breech plug.

I have a CVA Hawken percussion .50 cal. I built from a kit and I would like to be able to removed the breech plug. I can't say I have had to but I would like to be able to to ensure the bore and breech are clean.

Anyway, if it can be done without destroying things I would like to do it.

Thanks,
Longbow

this is recreational gunsmithing I think