Questions on using plastic shot cups with real black powder

[Tripplebeards]

Figured I’d try and ring some accuracy out of my old side-by-side Damascus Charles Daly. I pretty much have not shot it since I missed two turkeys with it a couple seasons ago and called it “a wall hanger” and gave up on it. It obviously worked perfectly on the first turkey I shot with it on the first day out …that had a double beard. I did a post on a few years ago, but for some reason, the accuracy fell off. Maybe I pulled the wrong trigger and was shooting the right side spreader barrel at the other two turkeys??? I know when I missed the last one it acted like a hang fire. Maybe I screwed up my load with that round or I had too much gun oil in the barrel and it caught fire when shooting? There was a huge flash and some warmth on my face when it went off. Or maybe I just caught sight of the fire flash on the end of the barrel before the smoke started coming out the barrel when I pulled the trigger. Either way I lost my confidence in it. So I figured maybe it was time to work on the new load. My plan is to stick with the same hundred grains of black powder charge with one and 1 5/8 ounce nickel plated #6 load but switch from using a 1/2” cardboard wad and an OS card to trying with with an SP10 wad and maybe a cut down BPI tuff wad with an OS card. I’ve read that plastic wads melt and cause a mess using real black powder behind them. Guess I’m just gonna have to experiment and find out. Figure I’ll give my barrel a quick scrub in between shots when I test my loads. I think about shooting muzzleloading rifles with plastic sabots. Never had any plastic following since I’ve been shooting muzzleloader since the 80s. Barrels get cleaned between every shot and I have never see any plastic following come out of it. I am guessing the shooters that get fowling probably shoot nonstop and don’t check in between shots for barrel inspections and cleaning. My plan is to develop a nice tight turkey load that is only going to get shot once I at a turkey and it’s going to either hit the ground or be gone anyways so it’s not like I’m gonna load up a couple hundred rounds and go out and start blasting nonstop till I cake my barrel with plastic if that’s even possible? Well, I’ve shot RST shells through my old gun and I’ve had zero plastic fowling in it so I would assume it’s a black powder thing? Anyone shoot black powder with plastic sabots in their shotguns? I’m almost debating on not using a half inch cardboard wad underneath the SP10 wad just because there’s not a lot of room in the 2 7/8” hull. I originally was debating on putting cardboard underneath it to try and keep the wad( shot cup) from melting but I have a feeling I won’t have enough room unless I cut down the shot cup. I figured it will probably save pellet burn through on my hulls as well. Also figured because of the pits in my barrel a plastic shot cup would save and wear and tear besides saving on the hulls?

[M-Tecs]

Never tried it so I have zero firsthand experience. I have read plastic fowling is much worse with BP but for your application with limited shooting I personally would not be overly concerned about it.

[Barry54]

What about a scoop of Puff-Lon on top of the powder, to “protect the wad”?

[Tripplebeards]

I could always just take a thin OS cardboard card and put it begween the black powder and sp10… if needed. I don’t know how sturdy that thin piece of cardboard would be though… maybe it’s not needed to be tough just enough of a “fire barrier” for the plastic shot cup? Guess I could even split one of the hardcards and make it thinner if I had to I think I’m just running out of case capacity by putting anything between the plastic SP-10 shot cup and the black powder charge. I had a couple of Winchester hulls tried to slide an SP 10 wad in one today. It’s tighter than a drum so if there’s definitely gonna be a good seal with just using the wad by itself. I know that’s all RST does with their smokeless 10 gauge 2 7/8” 1 3/8oz loads. My guess is I’ll be just fine with an sp-10 shotcup by itself over the charge. I just keep thinking what I should be questioning myself when I’ve used plastic sabots in my muzzle loader with a 150 grains of 777 Pyrodex pellets for decades with zero plastic fouling.

[Mk42gunner]

I wonder if most of the supposed melted plastic fouling isn't coming from the plastic cases themselves, instead of the plastic wads?

I have not loaded any shotgun shells with BP, but did shoot a lot of Butler Creek Poly Patches through my CVA Kentucky Pistol when I was a kid in the 1970's. I do not remember any plastic fouling from that gun, nor my cousins .50 cal T/C Hawken.

I'm not sure just how Tim cleaned his rifle, but my pistol just got hot water and Dawn dish soap pumped through the bore/ flash channel.

Robert

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve shot quite a few plastic hulls with BP and the only “melt” I’ve had is one burnt pellet hole in two of the hulls. Haven’t had any melted hulls or mess. Most have been fired a half dozen times and still going strong.

[Tripplebeards]

Well, I loaded a few up the other day. I put this in another post, but I figured I’d follow up here as well. In case anybody ever was watching this one. I probably should’ve used one of those fiber wads over the black powder before I put down a plastic shot cup. Maybe next time I’ll try that.

This is my black powder load that I loaded four up to try. I’ll try both barrels at 25 yards and both barrels at 40 yards. If it looks like a good load, I’ll have to load a few more and try at 50 yards and then try some with number five since I loaded them with nickel plated number sixes.

I added that little fiber cushion wad that a member here gave me. I figured it would probably help from pellets sticking to the base of the shotcup? That’s also the one I was referring to that I maybe should’ve put over the black powder charge before I put down the shot cup. Don’t know if it would make any difference with a better seal, or protect the base of the plastic cup,…or not.








You can see the way I cut that shot cut down a one and 5/8 ounce load fits perfectly to the top. The photo was before I reoved 10 grains of #6’s and added 10 grains back in the load of BPI original buffer. I literally just cut the halls down by hand maybe a quarter inch above where the plastic overshot card was and winged it and then roll crimped it down. It basically came out the exact same height as a factory 2 7/8” RST factory load.



Here’s two of the four loads. I had to trim the hulls down just a little bit more before I roll crimped them. They are the exact same length as the factory RST shell on the right so it was just perfect using that. BPD-10 wad cut down to 1.458” and nothing but a 100 grains of FG below it. I’ll be curious to see how they pattern. I wouldn’t think like I said above that pressures would increase much by using buffer and a shot cup because that shot cup doesn’t seat as firmly as a half inch nitro card. Guess I’ll see you when I go to pattern.

I probably should’ve added a different color plastic bingo chip over the top of these loads. It kind of looks confusing with a red chip. It kind of looks like it’s the same color as the hull. I made two more with blue chips and you can’t see through the blues because they’re so dark.




The BPD-10 wad showing the length I cut it down to. I tried to run it across sandpaper to even out my cut. Then I slit the 4 pedals down to the bases.


It’s raining today on and off so maybe next week I’ll go out and pattern test.