Annealing?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bob,

A 330 gr Lyman postell and a 360 gr BACO money bullet. 54 and 56 grs 1.5 Swiss. Lots of perfect 200 yard scores with 5-7 Xs.

KW

[doccash]

I guess that it's the thing to do and I thank everyone that responded to my post. Dr.C

[Kenny Wasserburger]

One thing I should add.

Quench is not at all necessary, brass isn’t a ferrous metal, keep that in mind. If you Air cool as I do, the annealing is very consistent. Quenching doesn’t give this consistency. if you air cool your brass they retain the same amount of ductility, or malleability is perhaps a better definition. A quench at different temperatures will cause considerable variation in this.

Consistently at the target, chronograph numbers, world record groups, tend to lend credence to my observations. I retain a considerable level of confidence in my ammunition I assemble.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Hick]

As I see it the bottom line on annealing is your purpose. The range I shoot at has 3" dingers hung at 100 yards. MY best open sight loads make it possible for me to hit them as long as I am having a good day and working at doing well. That challenge is what keeps my trips to the range from becoming boring. I don't anneal and I use a manual powder measure. Could I work harder at home perfecting the ammo just to have less challenge at the range? Sure-- but why would I want to? The challenge is what makes it fun. Would I do more if my goal was gold medals? Sure.

[Lead pot]

The only time I anneal is when I form brass from bottle neck to straight cases.
Shooting black powder loads why anneal the brass if you never size the cases, I don't use a die after the brass is formed except for a universal depriming die that does not swage the cases in when depriming.
Bottle necked brass used for HP and Jacketed bullets, yes I anneal the neck and shoulder because those shells get run through a sizing die.
My black powder BN brass I use in the .44's only get annealed when I form the necks from straight wall basic brass and never after they are formed.
New straight shells I get from Starline I anneal before the first firing and never after. No need when the necks are at chamber wall.
When I develop a load I don't get concerned with horizontal I look at the vertical. I don't make a sight correction till maybe after the 5 rounds fired.
When I get 5 shot groups this tight I don't need to anneal the brass. Once that case has been fired in the same chamber the spring back is not great enough for gas blow back.

Kurt

[piwo]

I too annneal after every firing, irregardless of pistol or rifle. The brass, whether factory loaded ammo or as a purchased component has been annealed before you get it. It’s not an “add on” practice in my opinion: it’s how it’s supposed to be handled.. that’s the way I view it.
Cheers

[Delkal]

One thing I should add.

Quench is not at all necessary, brass isn’t a ferrous metal, keep that in mind. If you Air cool as I do, the annealing is very consistent. Quenching doesn’t give this consistency. if you air cool your brass they retain the same amount of ductility, or malleability is perhaps a better definition. A quench at different temperatures will cause considerable variation in this.

Consistently at the target, chronograph numbers, world record groups, tend to lend credence to my observations. I retain a considerable level of confidence in my ammunition I assemble.

Kenny Wasserburger

Quenching is very important since brass is an excellent conductor of heat and you don't want to anneal too far down the case. I use a drill and socket but you should be able to just use your fingers and the case won't get hot at the base for the few seconds you heat the neck. But you need to quickly put them in water to cool. If you heat up the neck and hold the case till it cools you will get burnt and probably soften the brass where it shouldn't be softened.

Since brass isn't ferrous it doesn't harden when quickly cooled so quenching the cases does not change the ductility.

[JimB..]

One thing I should add.

Quench is not at all necessary, brass isn’t a ferrous metal, keep that in mind. If you Air cool as I do, the annealing is very consistent. Quenching doesn’t give this consistency. if you air cool your brass they retain the same amount of ductility, or malleability is perhaps a better definition. A quench at different temperatures will cause considerable variation in this.

Consistently at the target, chronograph numbers, world record groups, tend to lend credence to my observations. I retain a considerable level of confidence in my ammunition I assemble.

Kenny Wasserburger

You’re obviously very good at what you do, but can you explain how dropping into say a bucket of water creates “a quench at different temperatures.” Since no annealing happens below about 600F I wouldn’t expect the temp of the quench water to introduce any significant inconsistency. Air cooling does give a slightly longer soak at temp than quenching, maybe the extra time makes the difference. FWIW, I air cool as well, I prefer handling hot/warm brass to wet brass.

[JimB..]

Quenching is very important since brass is an excellent conductor of heat and you don't want to anneal too far down the case. I use a drill and socket but you should be able to just use your fingers and the case won't get hot at the base for the few seconds you heat the neck. But you need to quickly put them in water to cool. If you heat up the neck and hold the case till it cools you will get burnt and probably soften the brass where it shouldn't be softened.

Since brass isn't ferrous it doesn't harden when quickly cooled so quenching the cases does not change the ductility.

Paint a case with 750F and 600F templac and you’ll see that there isn’t enough heat migration to the body of the case to soften it unless you’re annealing way too hot and too long, ruining the case anyway.

[mike salyards]

Personally I would listen to Kenny. What he says works!

[greyhawk]

Personally I would listen to Kenny. What he says works!

horses for courses I stand em in a tray of water (in a dark room so can see the colours) do it with a torch, tip em over in the water as I go - I get ES numbers under ten on the chrony with my blackpowder loads, grease boolits and no clean between shots - I think that works --however I was proper trained in gas torch welding as a youngster and have a lot of experience in copper/brass and torches since - maybe makes a difference.

whatever it takes for consistency in our loading is main message.