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Thread: M1 Garand in .308 WIN - just purchased ! LOADS ?

  1. #101
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    THE most recent lawsuit was by a guy who lives over the other side of the far hill (North).
    He came to court with a handful of FMJ bullets that he testified were in his swimming pool
    and lodged in his house door frame. Many of them had no rifling grooves in them !
    He lost the case, but the court made the Club Bulldose the big Berms and buy more
    insurance.

    The thing of claiming that bullets without rifling grooves were found was, to me,
    perjury. But, I'm just an old fool. The Bulldosing cost the club $8,500 and the higher
    insurance ? ? ? So the Rangemaster told me today.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The guy at the far end is not dead.....prone shooting. lol
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-14-2024 at 11:46 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  2. #102
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well when our club had the same thing ( a developer was behind it) the bullets supposedly came from a house wall and roof, gravel driveway and lawns. again no rifling and also no distortion from impact. When this was pointed out that there were no longer smooth bore rifles and pistols all were rifled the issue was dropped.

    The one we did work with was a local church pastor came and talked to us On sundays congregation was coming and going while the lines were hot. We moved start times on Sunday for matches back 1/2 hour and all was well.

  3. #103
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Washington state law prohibits suits against gun ranges and airports for noise abatement. Safety is the only real concern. Had numerous instances of similar complaints when I was the president of Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club. Always resolved in our favor.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  4. #104
    Boolit Master
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    Forward landing Brass
    Some times it happens very common on the M1

    I have found if it is the last round in the e-block the brass hits the hump on the oprod and tosses it forward
    or is it the first one tossed forward ??

    7 to the side and back 1 forward

  5. #105
    Boolit Master
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    ALL of the 8 brass cases fell 5 - 10 ft FORWARD yesterday.

    No big deal except I can't go out there to retrieve my Brass
    until the RangeMaster calls "Clear" and if the clear time is
    short, I have trouble finding it. Other shooters are not patient.....
    they don't like to wait for some old phart to find his Brass.
    You see, the area out in front of the Benches is COVERED in Brass -
    maybe I'll have to color my Brass Pink to quickly find it ! Or Red....maybe Black....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am a reloader, so I gather up ALL my brass and take care of it !

    The Enbloc Clip landed right next to me on the bench.

    The 38 gr of Reloader 15 worked quite nicely.

    The rifle sights were very close, a bit high at 50 yrs right
    out of the "box" ! Most happy with that M1 Garand !

    The front wooden handguard portion of the stock is loose.
    Has about a 1 mm slop sliding back & Forth. Normal, or
    does it require a shim ?

    And I didn't smack my thumb even once ! I learn quickly.....lol
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-15-2024 at 11:35 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  6. #106
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Forward and right about 2:00 is the normal ejection pattern for the garand except for the last round from a clip. This can be adjusted by clipping the ejector spring and or stoning a slightly different angle on it.
    Most front hand guards are a little loose so they dont affect barrel harmonics . One of the match mods is to screw and epoxy the back metal to the hand guard then pull the sheet metal liner out.This gave better airflow around the barrel and as the op rod flexes it dosnt hit it.

    One thing some shooters do is to buy a cheap bed sheet and spread it where the brass falls to catch it. A brass catcher can be made to set on the bench beside the rifle to catch it also. I have made them up. These work well but digging the clip out can be fun.

    What size groups were you getting with it. Service rifles sometimes like having the sling tension on them to do the best. I tested from the bench or prone with a bag under my forward hand and the sling on in a tighter setting. This would ussually do better than of the front rest and rear bag for me.

  7. #107
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks country_gent ! See Post #100 bottom picture.

    I watched a YouTube Video that said to improve your shooting
    IMMEDIATELY, to focus on the front sight. Mine is Black.
    I am going to paint it white with "White Out" to see if THAT
    helps.

    I have Blepharitis and my vision is Near Sighted anyway !

    I made Pinhole Effect Shooting Glasses - BINGO ! Works PERFECTLY !
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_(optics)

    I bought cheap used sunglasses in thrift stores (our Favorite haunts).
    and then drilled a 1/4" hole where my eye slights when shooting.

    Put them on, sight with a rifle and put a dot in the sight line
    on the glasses with a Sharpie, then drill there with a 1/4" drill.
    THIS is the hardest part of this....

    THEN, I took some various small metal tubes, sharpened the end, and
    punched various size holes in a piece of Electrical Tape for a "Pinhole Sight".
    Use punches if you have them. The edges must be clean-cut to work properly.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So....if you are nearsighted (whatever), the Pinhole focuses the image
    and helps you sight better w/o corrective lenses. You need to figure
    out what size pinhole works for YOU ! If too small, image is fuzzy.

    TRY IT ! Not expensive if you buy at a Thrift Store....

    BTW - some shooting stores sell these under a name I can't remember.
    "Merit" discs.....maybe...Lyman sight discs ? A "Peep Sight" effect.
    https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...lp-with-focus/

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-16-2024 at 12:43 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  8. #108
    Boolit Bub
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    I read somewhere that a lighter load will throw the brass off to the side instead of forward. Again this is just what I have read as so far, I have been shooting HXP that I purchased when CMP had a lot of it. The HXP also throws it out at about 1 o'clock and forward.

  9. #109
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    .

    The rear aperture of my M1 sight could be a bit larger diameter for my old eyes.


    DoctorBill
    Not sure what rear sight you have on yours. They have some NM sights that are smaller in diameter, some with a hood and some without. I believe that all of the NM sights will have NM on them. If this is the case you can obtain a standard one to replace it.

    On my M1 which is a Greek return the elevation is marked in Meters. I read somewhere that is for the M1A/M14 but not sure.

  10. #110
    Boolit Grand Master

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    On the line front sights were smoked with a carbide lantern for the very darkest dullest black. this stood out and there was no glare from light as the day changed. The national match front is thinner than the standard and tapered (wider at the back and taller at the front)

    The national match rear sight normally has a hood with .052 or .056 aperture, it also rotates making for the 1/2 min elevation adjustment. windage still remains 1 min clk. The standard aperture can be drilled and taped a threaded slug locktited in then drilled to the desired size.the othe mod to the battle sight that was done was to bed the slide to the base. the bottom of the gear rack was beveled off so it could set lower with a file. the base was cleaned the slide coated with several coats of release agent. epoxy was mixed and filled in the base the slide inserted and clamped down into place with vise grips. when cured it was removed and worked to slightly loosen i. this takes most of the play out of the slide turning the spring cover the rest.

  11. #111
    Boolit Master
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    On smoking the Front Sight with Lamp Black (a candle does the same thing
    like candling your Bullet molds)...

    Depends on whether the Target is Dark or Light.....you want contrast.

    For white targets - Black sight. For dark target - White front sight.

    I'll try the "White-Out" first, then go from there. Many Pistol Sights are
    white dot type. Depends on what works for YOU, as does everything....


    I bought the HODGDEN "2024 Basic Reloading Manual" for $5. uuummmhhhh.....
    https://shop.hodgdon.com/2024-basic-reloading-manual/

    You can get the SAME data off THEIR WEBSITE ON the Internet.

    I got the varying hole size rear peepsight back years ago for my Sharps 45-70 Quigley Repro Rifle. My peepsight hole diameter has to be larger that standard for ME to see properly, or it gets cobweb-like patterns over the target.
    Different strokes for different folks.

    I was into late 1800's Black Powder Cartridge rifles for a while.
    I have threads on them all over this Forum under "DoctorBill".....
    most all the pictures are lost because the PhotoBucket site is gone.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sea...rchid=11123635

    I have a .577 Black Powder Breech Loading English SNIDER rifle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider%E2%80%93Enfield

    My favorite of ALL rifles is my English 1876 .577-450 Martini Henry Zulu Rifle.
    Paper patched 523 gr Cast .45 cal Lead Bullet over 50 gr Black Powder.
    (Should be 80 gr compressed load - but I'm a wussie....kicks enough with 50 gr.)
    Kicks like a Shotgun. Very Accurate. Used for Cape Buffalo and Elephant
    besides WAR.
    John Henry Patterson used a Martini .577-450 to kill the second of the famous Man-Eating Lions of Tsavo. ("The Ghost and the Darkness" movie, which caused me to obtain a Ruger #1 in 45-70). OCD.

    I guess I have little else to discuss now. I've rambled ALL OVER on this
    Thread.... It has been Fun and enlightening, guys.....Thank you !

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-16-2024 at 11:19 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  12. #112
    Boolit Master
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    Has anyone TRIED that Ed Harris use of Alliant 2400 in the M1 Garand - in either
    30-06 or .308 ?

    I have plenty of 2400 powder (kinda old)......

    DoctorBill

    Post Script: I had some fairly old smokeless powder (name forgotten) that I got in an estate sale, about 20 years ago, that smelled STRONGLY of Baby Barf mixed with Cat Pee......Hideous.
    I poured it out (about a third of a pound) on my gravel driveway (upwind of it) and ignited it. Burned just like any other smokeless powder !

    I read somewhere that old Surplus Egyptian 8mm Mauser rounds smelled so bad when fired that guys downwind complained quite a bit. could old Cordite stink ? Never saw any or fired it. Extruded as long "Cords".
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-16-2024 at 11:16 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  13. #113
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    .
    Has anyone TRIED that Ed Harris use of Alliant 2400 in the M1 Garand - in either
    30-06 or .308 ?

    I have plenty of 2400 powder (kinda old)......

    DoctorBill

    Post Script: I had some fairly old smokeless powder (name forgotten) that I got in an estate sale, about 20 years ago, that smelled STRONGLY of Baby Barf mixed with Cat Pee......Hideous.
    I poured it out (about a third of a pound) on my gravel driveway (upwind of it) and ignited it. Burned just like any other smokeless powder !

    I read somewhere that old Surplus Egyptian 8mm Mauser rounds smelled so bad when fired that guys downwind complained quite a bit. Cordite ?
    No. And don't. 2400 is now a precious powder that hasn't been available for years so save it for something more appropriate like high end pistols or 22 hornets. Use the rifle powders with the appropriate burning rates we have been talking for dozens of posts for a Garand.


    And always throw away any powder that smells acidic. Use it for fertilizing your garden.

  14. #114
    Boolit Master
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    If I had access to a supply of 2400 I would use it in my .308.

    It is position sensitive for 1800fps loads but it can be very accurate.

  15. #115
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delkal View Post
    There are millions of Garands in use for over 80 years and they shot countless billions of rounds of ammo without a problem. While there are reports of hot loads with a heavy bullet bending the op-rod I suspect most of these were from competition shooters trying to get an advantage on the 600 yard stage. They would be the ones to notice a slight bend after a match and that is why it is so publicized. I do not think you will find a commercial "cheap" load using a 147 FMJ that will cause a problem.

    Later in WWII and Korea they developed a grenade launcher that would fit over the muzzle and used a cartridge with just a powder charge. They had extremely violent recoil and it was later recommended to hold the rifle at an angle and put the butt on the ground to shoot it. The recoil could be so violent that in rare cases it cracked the back of the receiver. But no one back then ever mentioned bent op rods so that should tell you something. And don't worry about the receiver cracking. This only happened with the grenade launcher and depending on the forge code on the receiver any suspect receivers were heel dipped in molten lead to anneal them during rebuild.
    I may be wrong, but I thought the action was locked shut when launching grenades. That is why the gas plug has the funny little valve built into it.
    If this is not the case, why the valve?

  16. #116
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmacgyver0 View Post
    I may be wrong, but I thought the action was locked shut when launching grenades. That is why the gas plug has the funny little valve built into it.
    If this is not the case, why the valve?
    The gas plug vents some of the gas but the bolt still comes back hard when firing a grenade. There is no way I know of to lock the action shut. The newer gas plug with the poppet valve had a larger hole in front so the grenade launcher could fit. You could not could attach a launcher with the original solid gas cylinder lock screw. That would have been really bad.

  17. #117
    Boolit Master
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    There are MANY, Many sites where Alliant 2400 is sold now......It is usually
    "Out of Stock"......but is made and sold. Look them up.
    I found these sites advertizing 2400.....Midway, Cabelas, Sportsman's Warehouse,
    Powder Valley, Brownells, Natchez .....on and on.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I picked up over 3 lbs in about 6 months by placing want ads on our local Gun Trader Site.

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    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-18-2024 at 12:01 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  18. #118
    Boolit Master
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    Speaking of buying powder from other shooters, the possibility of obtaining a couple of pounds of Hodgden BL-C(2) Ball Powder
    has come up on our local Gun Trader website at $40 / lb. Good powder for .308 and/or 7.62x51 NATO.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I would try a reduced load. With BALL powder........with a cotton fiber fill.

    Stocking up for 'Hard Times" - and NO sales Tax......$35 savings over any store (plus no shipping).

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 05-20-2024 at 07:38 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  19. #119
    Boolit Master
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    By the way.....just in case you have money burning a hole in your pocketbook....

    Here is the M3A1 Combination Tool (new) you may "Have to Have" (OCD) !

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I want one, but my self control is active right this minute.....

    DoctorBill

    PS - I have 72 rounds made up ready to shoot.....but it is raining here - for a week !

    DoctorBill

    PS - the BL-C(2) ad turned out to be a fluke. You find strange people selling things. But not me ! I'm perfectly normal.....
    Last edited by DoctorBill; Yesterday at 11:59 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

    I use Paint.net (Free Public Program) to label and edit Photos on this Forum.

  20. #120
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    .
    Has anyone TRIED that Ed Harris use of Alliant 2400 in the M1 Garand - in either
    30-06 or .308 ?

    I have plenty of 2400 powder (kinda old)......

    DoctorBill

    Post Script: I had some fairly old smokeless powder (name forgotten) that I got in an estate sale, about 20 years ago, that smelled STRONGLY of Baby Barf mixed with Cat Pee......Hideous.
    I poured it out (about a third of a pound) on my gravel driveway (upwind of it) and ignited it. Burned just like any other smokeless powder !

    I read somewhere that old Surplus Egyptian 8mm Mauser rounds smelled so bad when fired that guys downwind complained quite a bit. could old Cordite stink ? Never saw any or fired it. Extruded as long "Cords".
    I have used the ed harris load of 2400 in the garand
    Its only a straight pull with this powder but a good load if you can keep slow for plinker loads less than 200 yds

    The front wooden handguard portion of the stock is loose.
    Has about a 1 mm slop sliding back & Forth. Normal
    this is good when it it tight is when you have problems ...............> you should not even pick up the rifle by the front handguard so leave it loose

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check