Wasp Rice Shot Loads: .38/.45LC

[steve urquell]

So I have this huge hornet hanging around. Looks like a European hornet but bigger--maybe a queen? 1.25-1.5" body as big around as a carpenter bee. I could have shot it but it wasn't bugging me so I let it do its thing. If it gets aggressive I'll pop it. The red wasps draw no quarter because they are always in my face.

Which hornet do y'all think this is?
https://youtu.be/4WuykDPmuRE?feature=shared

[HWooldridge]

I don’t know where you live, but those big Asian hornets are now in the far Northwest part of the country.

And if you live in the South, it might be a cicada killer - those will not bother a person.

[steve urquell]

I don’t know where you live, but those big Asian hornets are now in the far Northwest part of the country.

And if you live in the South, it might be a cicada killer - those will not bother a person.

I have Asian hornets here in Arkansas but this guy was much bigger than them.

[sureYnot]

I had a little time to play this morning. Here's where I'm at.

.357 mag brass. 2gn 700X, over powder cardboard wad, .380 case of rice, capsule of rice.
I expect a .38 case would do just as well with exactly the same procedure and amount of rice. It would just require a minor adjustment of the "seat/crimp" die.

When I was crimping my loads with over shot wads, it always wanted to just bend one side. Which was fine for those, but I figured it would probably give me pretty bad runout with the capsules. That may or may not be a problem, but I figured I'd just head that one off at the pass. To that end, I reversed the shaft of the decapping pin on my .300BLK sizing die to make it be a seater/crimper.


Here's a closer shot of a couple loaded brass. You can see where a shoulder is just barely being pushed on.

These are in there SOLID. You are not pulling it back out with your bare hands.

Results: (I've marked each standard sized printer paper with the distance in feet.)








Either the crimp results in enough pressure, or the "seater" weakens the front of the capsule enough that I don't have to score it to get it to break open.
It does build enough pressure to expand the case mouth such that I can seat a new capsule without having to expand the case mouth. The small end of the capsule will drop in but the fatter end requires some force.
I did have 1 of the 5 cases split. But, I have no idea how many times this brass has been fired. So, that may or may not be a thing. The fact that I don't have to expand them to reload should keep the splits to a minimum (I think) as the amount of sizing taking place the 2nd time around is minimal.
On the right is one that I fired and shoved a new capsule in and crimped it.



I'm out of time for now. I plan to do some lead shot testing soon.

Please steal and mutate the ideas I have stolen and mutated.

I think we're on a good path here. Speer might even lose some shot capsule sales over it.

[dverna]

I had a little time to play this morning. Here's where I'm at.

.357 mag brass. 2gn 700X, over powder cardboard wad, .380 case of rice, capsule of rice.
I expect a .38 case would do just as well with exactly the same procedure and amount of rice. It would just require a minor adjustment of the "seat/crimp" die.

When I was crimping my loads with over shot wads, it always wanted to just bend one side. Which was fine for those, but I figured it would probably give me pretty bad runout with the capsules. That may or may not be a problem, but I figured I'd just head that one off at the pass. To that end, I reversed the shaft of the decapping pin on my .300BLK sizing die to make it be a seater/crimper.


Here's a closer shot of a couple loaded brass. You can see where a shoulder is just barely being pushed on.

These are in there SOLID. You are not pulling it back out with your bare hands.

Results: (I've marked each standard sized printer paper with the distance in feet.)








Either the crimp results in enough pressure, or the "seater" weakens the front of the capsule enough that I don't have to score it to get it to break open.
It does build enough pressure to expand the case mouth such that I can seat a new capsule without having to expand the case mouth. The small end of the capsule will drop in but the fatter end requires some force.
I did have 1 of the 5 cases split. But, I have no idea how many times this brass has been fired. So, that may or may not be a thing. The fact that I don't have to expand them to reload should keep the splits to a minimum (I think) as the amount of sizing taking place the 2nd time around is minimal.
On the right is one that I fired and shoved a new capsule in and crimped it.



I'm out of time for now. I plan to do some lead shot testing soon.

Please steal and mutate the ideas I have stolen and mutated.

I think we're on a good path here. Speer might even lose some shot capsule sales over it.

Good post!

[sureYnot]

Testing with #8 shot.

I changed nothing in the procedure and loaded up with lead shot. Covered my favorite parts and squeezed off. No "shot shower." Shot did not penetrate but was all stuck in the cardboard. Bumped up to 3gn. Penetrated both sides of the box and the wad of packing paper and bubble wrap that was crammed in it.
Tested at 5 & 10 feet.

[elmacgyver0]

You guys have come up with some great ideas.

[steve urquell]

Those loads came out great. Texas by God sent me some #12 shot and I mixed up .38 and 9mm loads with them. I actually got 170gr of shot in the .38. 105gr in the 9mm

[HWooldridge]

FWIW, I use 5-7 grs of 700X in lead shot loads (41 mag through 45 Colt). Rice will obviously take less powder but any amount of lead shot probably needs a bit more ooomph.

[sureYnot]

Those loads came out great. Texas by God sent me some #12 shot and I mixed up .38 and 9mm loads with them. I actually got 170gr of shot in the .38. 105gr in the 9mm

That's what I get, too. Right at 170 in the .357.
I bet that #12 gives a nice pattern.

[steve urquell]

That's what I get, too. Right at 170 in the .357.
I bet that #12 gives a nice pattern.

Brutal pattern. Remember if anyone is loading 9mm a heavy crimp won't work due to seating on the case mouth in the chamber.

[sureYnot]

Brutal pattern. Remember if anyone is loading 9mm a heavy crimp won't work due to seating on the case mouth in the chamber.

That sounds like an excuse to own a 9mm revolver. It could pay for itself in brass if you live long enough.

[steve urquell]

That sounds like an excuse to own a 9mm revolver. It could pay for itself in brass if you live long enough.

I like the derringer with the 9mm adapters for this although they also seat on the case mouth. Its small and easy to handle for this work. If I had a tiny .38 I'd be all over it for the increased case capacity. I've only killed 5 copperheads on my property in 24yrs so I doubt I'll need many snake loads but the rice ones have been fun and useful.

[sureYnot]

I like the derringer with the 9mm adapters for this although they also seat on the case mouth. Its small and easy to handle for this work. If I had a tiny .38 I'd be all over it for the increased case capacity. I've only killed 5 copperheads on my property in 24yrs so I doubt I'll need many snake loads but the rice ones have been fun and useful.

Don't be wrecking my excuse for me. I haven't even started talking myself into it yet.

[steve urquell]

Don't be wrecking my excuse for me. I haven't even started talking myself into it yet.

Oh, let me try that again:
I don't know how you managed to go this long without a 9mm revolver. I suggest the Czech Alpha-Proj imported by RIA. You MUST have it.

https://revolverguy.com/rock-island-...-9-0-revolver/

[sureYnot]

Oh, let me try that again:
I don't know how you managed to go this long without a 9mm revolver. I suggest the Czech Alpha-Proj imported by RIA. You MUST have it.

https://revolverguy.com/rock-island-...-9-0-revolver/

That's better. And I like it. But I got to thinking....
A little piece like you have, should be able to do something like this...

[steve urquell]

That's better. And I like it. But I got to thinking....
A little piece like you have, should be able to do something like this...

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

[Barry54]

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

I need to send you some 454 brass or even 303 British!

[sureYnot]

Lol, it can. No restrictions on length. One thing I was going to point out about our different techniques is that I overload the capsule and let the seater crunch it down. It allows me to get another 30% of payload in the capsule as it is compressed.

I've been playing with that a little. I just made a few dummies with basically packing in as much as I can and still get the capsule together. It looks like it should work great. I figured some would break. But none broke. Good to know you're already doing that.

This is the most fun collaborative field lab exercise I've played in a long time.

[steve urquell]

I had considered splitting this thread off and starting another with the title indicating the evolution to the gelatin capsules as I feel that has been a breakthrough in this. But, I'm pretty lazy so I'll just keep running with it.

TexasbyGod sent me some #12 shot to play with (thank you sir) and I loaded one each of 9mm and .38spl with it last night and shot it for patterns. Compared it to the # 7 1/2 shot loads I already had.

Same technique of swaging the necks of the brass down in the .380 seater die, filling the capsule nearly full and letting my bullet seater scruntch it all down and compress it.

Comparison of 9mm #7 1/2 shot to #12:


9mm, 3.1gr Titewad, 100gr of #7 1/2 shot, 4ft


9mm, 3.1TW, 105gr #12shot, 4ft


.38spl, 3.1gr TiteWad with a cardboard wad over it with 65gr of #12 shot on the wad and a capsule filled with 105gr of #12 shot: 170gr of lead shot!!




I had already charged and wadded the .38 and was shocked to realize I had a 170gr load in it and got nervous about the 3.1gr TiteWad powder charge so I will admit I yanked the trigger off to the side not knowing how hot it was going to be. It was actually really mild lol. Impact is brutal and blew the back off the 2 plastic lawn chairs behind the target. No worries as the chairs were slated for the dumpster.