Isit worth Powder Coating apart from purely cosmetic reasons?

[MT Gianni]

I have 3 lubesizers on the bench next to an arbor press set up for NOE dies. I still lube some but with 30 cal and 357 lever guns you can shoot them at max 357 speeds without gas checks if you PC.

[jdgabbard]

...everyone is entitled to personal opinions + on other threads on topic here + on other forums - many have the same opinions as i do -

Absolutely! Everyone should have the right to have their own opinions!

But here's the catch: When smokeless powder came around I'm sure there were some guys trying to figure out how to use it while the Holy Black guys were telling them just to use BP. A few years later down the road once they figured it out and it was well established I'm sure there were still some die-hard BP guys saying that there wasn't any practical advantage over just using BP. But after a decade it was decided that it absolutely was a better alternative to BP. If it weren't we'd still be using BP for all our reloading today. That last part is where we currently are with bullet coatings.

It's not that BP, or this case traditionally lubing (with or without sizing), is not still workable. People use BP, and traditional lube, every day! It's that we now have a better alternative, placing the former in a niche. And just like how we let the Flintlock and BP Cartridge guys do their thing, nobody is going to insist that you or anyone else stop doing things the way you love doing them. But that also doesn't mean we won't point out the obvious advantages, and obvious fallacies in statements made when they could steer others down a more expensive and outdated path.

That said, I do hope you haven't taken offense to anything I've said, as none of it has been meant to minimalize your opinions. I'm sure there are plenty of others that feel the same way you do. But can we just agree that the Ribeye is the best cut of steak and be done with it???

I'm sure someone will disagree and tell me the NY Strip is better.

[jdgabbard]

I have 3 lubesizers on the bench next to an arbor press set up for NOE dies. I still lube some but with 30 cal and 357 lever guns you can shoot them at max 357 speeds without gas checks if you PC.

It really is amazing. I used to expect a fair bit of leading in 9mm when I'd get a new gun until I got things worked out. Not anymore... I too still keep the Lubesizer mounted on the bench, with lube in it, ready to go. But honestly, I haven't touched it in over two years with the exception of using it to seat some gaschecks on rifle bullets. I'm not entirely sure I even need those anymore tho...

[charlie b]

I have shot enough groups (hundreds of groups from 100 to 500yd) with lubed vs PC to know that there is no difference accuracy wise. There is more variation in the cast bullet itself than the coating/lube.

So, it is all down to which you prefer to do. Like I said before, I do both depending on what mold I am using.

[racepres]

I have shot enough groups (hundreds of groups from 100 to 500yd) with lubed vs PC to know that there is no difference accuracy wise. There is more variation in the cast bullet itself than the coating/lube.

So, it is all down to which you prefer to do. Like I said before, I do both depending on what mold I am using.

The Voice of Reason...I will give PC a Chance... Tho I was going to before all this hoopla

[Oldfeller]

[QUOTE=jdgabbard;5716453]Here is a link to the individual sizing bushing:

https://www.titanreloading.com/produ...nd-punch-sets/

You'll also want one of these to use the bushings: https://www.titanreloading.com/produ...let-sizer-kit/




This is excellent info for someone starting out in either powder coating or liquid Alox methodology.

P Flados lent me a mold that did two different .358 bullets which I sized down to .3565" with one pass through a solid steel LEE sizing die. My largest press was needed for the job as press pressures were considerable, pad lubed "barking and moaning" style of considerable.

I pad lubricated every bullet as I did not want to damage my cast iron LEE Classic press.

Considering the plastic and aluminum components that are currently used to shoulder stop all the forces used to size the bullets, I kinda doubt my P Flados bullet resizing arrangement would have been very kind to this partial plastic and aluminum construction sizing die.

Funny thing about the prices, 20 years ago when I bought all my basic sizers they only cost $12 each for the large, very solid hardened steel construction "immortal" sizer dies.

[rintinglen]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.

[jdgabbard]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.

[jsizemore]

The Voice of Reason...I will give PC a Chance... Tho I was going to before all this hoopla

It's always good to explore and master all your options.

[jsizemore]

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.

I use my star to size after PC. So PC adds the time to coat and bake. Takes the same time to to size and lube or just size. It takes me 20 minutes to coat 800 bullets and another 30 minutes to bake. PC takes longer.

[jdgabbard]

I use my star to size after PC. So PC adds the time to coat and bake. Takes the same time to to size and lube or just size. It takes me 20 minutes to coat 800 bullets and another 30 minutes to bake. PC takes longer.

Ok, but not everyone has a Star. I would say probably 1-2% of people have Star Sizers. Most people are going to have a Lyman or RCBS Lubesizer. People who own Star sizers are the exception to the rule.

[charlie b]

Time to prep the bullets is a huge variable, depending on how you are processing.

You can PC 500-1000 bullets (or more) in one batch with a std size oven. If you are careful in mold purchasing you can buy a mold that negates the need to size. Fast method.

Like mentioned above, once you need to size it is almost a wash unless you have a Star sizer. I've seen a couple Star's with a powered bullet feed that is production level output, but, the setup cost is fairly steep.

[elmacgyver0]

It all comes down to this:
If you like lube, then definitely use it.
If you like PC, then definitely use it.
You have a choice, either way is just fine with me.
In some cases, one will work better than the other and vise-versa.
If you totally rule out one or the other, you are limiting your choices and versatility.

[racepres]

^^^ Wouldn't it be nice to have a Like Button...VS "yes...I agree"

[quilbilly]

I P.C. some of my fishing jigs and did a few of my boolits to test. I have so many containers of the Lee Alox (aka Mule snot) bought over the years that I don't bother with P.C.'ing boolits yet. Since just load for bolt guns and single shots, that became another reason to not bothering with all the extra steps required for P.C.ing.

[fredj338]

The one real drawback to PC versus LLA or 45/45/10 is that it is time consuming. If you are a high volume shooter, it adds a half hour plus per tray, versus simple tumble lube. I seldom do it anymore, save when I want "lipstick" boolits for pretty cartridges.

Not sure what you mean by tray. There certainly is a time diff but but if sizing both, it might be 1hr more to pc. I can coat & bake 1000 in about an hour, they are then ready to size. What does it take to Alox 1000, 15min plus drying time? For that i get non sticky, non smoky bullets. Worth it to me, and i shoot about 800 a month.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

For those who think PC is so healthy compared to lubed bullets it's really not. PC has triglycidyl isocyanurate, tri-mellitic anhydride and lead chromate which you can breath when you coat and when you bake. When it comes out the barrel who knows. I don't think it's ever been studied.

I have powder coated many buckets of bullets, but there's no quicker way from pot to range than my Star sizer. I use a very soft lube that doesn't get hard and my bullets are always sharper and dimensionally correct. Maybe a spray would be better, but I mostly tumble in a bin for speed.

Right now I honestly don't see a clear winner. They both have their place. I'm hoping some day there will be a better method that is more uniform and easy to use.

[fredj338]

Where is everyone getting this "takes more time" thing. It's literally faster than lubing. Probably about the same as LLA. If it's adding time to how long it takes you're doing something very inefficiently.

Well it depends on your gear. Alox, you are sizing just like PC. With stick lubes, a Lyman/RCBS is pretty slow compared to a Star. I can Alox coat 1000 bullets in maybe 10min. I cant PC in 10min.

[fredj338]

For those who think PC is so healthy compared to lubed bullets it's really not. PC has triglycidyl isocyanurate, tri-mellitic anhydride and lead chromate which you can breath when you coat and when you bake. When it comes out the barrel who knows. I don't think it's ever been studied.

I have powder coated many buckets of bullets, but there's no quicker way from pot to range than my Star sizer. I use a very soft lube that doesn't get hard and my bullets are always sharper and dimensionally correct. Maybe a spray would be better, but I mostly tumble in a bin for speed.

Right now I honestly don't see a clear winner. They both have their place. I'm hoping some day there will be a better method that is more uniform and easy to use.

Well I dont stand around & breath while baking my bullets, but I know there is a smell, so maybe something in your statement, depending on what powder you use.

[fredj338]

Time to prep the bullets is a huge variable, depending on how you are processing.

You can PC 500-1000 bullets (or more) in one batch with a std size oven. If you are careful in mold purchasing you can buy a mold that negates the need to size. Fast method.

Like mentioned above, once you need to size it is almost a wash unless you have a Star sizer. I've seen a couple Star's with a powered bullet feed that is production level output, but, the setup cost is fairly steep.

Almost impossible to get a mold that throws exactly the correct final size bullet because, as we all know, casting temp & alloy controls final size. Then of course coating adds size too.