Sounds like a winner right there! I was just sent some 175grn DEWC and that is where I will most likely begin.Originally Posted by Thumbcocker
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Sounds like a winner right there! I was just sent some 175grn DEWC and that is where I will most likely begin.
Consider, that a wadcutter won't reload very quick. You can always still carry something better for reloading as the reload though.
I heartily concur. Red Dot is sort of a secret weapon when it comes to loading the 44 Special. I load a ~230 grain NOE Button-nose, WC boolit over 4.5 grains of Red Dot and out to 50 yards it groups extremely well and I sure wouldn't want to get between the muzzle and the target if one was let fly.
_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but where recoil is an issue, the heavier bullet (at a lower velocity) may be the better choice.
The table below shows the velocities required for .44 caliber wadcutters of various weights to achieve a predicted 18 inches of penetration in bare 10% ordnance gelatin with about 36 grams of wound mass.
The "Power Factor" is a thinly disguised measurement of bullet momentum which relates to recoil. For comparison, a .38 Special target wadcutter has a power factor just shy of 100 and .45 GI hardball just shy of 200.
Last edited by pettypace; 04-09-2024 at 05:43 AM.
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
A 215 grain HBWC out of a .44 Special is basically cloning the 220 grain .455 Webley MKIV bullet, which is more or less what we've come to think of as an ogival wadcutter. That slug sticks out of the case by a good bit, but then, .455 MKII brass is a pretty short case. Seat yours to where your powder charge is living in a reasonably confined space to ensure reliable ignition
I believe I ended up with 3 to 3.2 grains of Red Dot for launching that bullet out of a big Webley MKVI. Penetration was four gallon jugs as I recall - pretty much even with what you'll get out of most police duty loads.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
WDW44, PM coming your way.
Thanks for that information! Will put it to good use.It sounds counter-intuitive, but where recoil is an issue, the heavier bullet (at a lower velocity) may be the better choice.
The table below shows the velocities required for .44 caliber wadcutters of various weights to achieve a predicted 18 inches of penetration in bare 10% ordnance gelatin with about 36 grams of wound mass.
The "Power Factor" is a thinly disguised measurement of bullet momentum which relates to recoil. For comparison, a .38 Special target wadcutter has a power factor just shy of 100 and .45 GI hardball just shy of 200.
A secondary related question: Everyone seems to like to quote the "Skeeter load" as the (Choose your level of enthusiasm) load, and I mean him no disrespect having read him for years in Shooting Times rags, BUT every GEL TEST report I can find it seems as if that Boolit over penetrates something terrible!
Is that some kind of "Fame by Association" event, or od people have actual results on two legged creatures? In over 90% of shooting scenarios over my career, there have always been others behind the target which I do no choose to shoot, nor would they appreciate my shooting them.
I prefer to slightly UNDER-Penetrate, so the Skeeter load I would use on small deer (ala Kansas sized). I shot a coyote once with one. He stood facing me at about 100 yeards. My .44mag shot hit him in the front right shoulder just under his neck, passed slightly below his mid-back spine, which was broken, and lodged just under his left flank, by his tail. He dropped and never even kicked of flinched. Great stop BUT I am certain that would have exited a two-legged coyote, with killing to spare.
I like the Skeeter load, for accuracy and Kansas hunting, and plan to test it in the new S&W 69 .44 caliber, I just purchased.
Thanks THIN MAN! Just found it, and am hungrily devouring them now!
Somewhere on this forum there's a great story about some gel testing with military brass in attendance. The star of the show, IIRC, was an old 38/44 load that penetrated all available gelatin, bounced off the backstop, and went careening around the room sending the august spectators diving for cover.
If extreme penetration were the answer, the government would still issue 30-40 Krags.
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
Appreciate the reply. I am not concerned about bullets hitting low. Once I find the one that gives me everything I want, I will gunsmith the front sight to POA. Have dome that with other fixed sight guns, and I always stick a note bearing the load, bullet weight, etc, and that sights were modified for that load, in the box it came in so when I die my heirs, or bill collectors (LOL) can match it all up. For other shooting I'll just hold high, low, left or right, no problem, but most of my shooting will be with THE LOAD or one with very similar ingredients...LOL.
Last edited by WDW44; 04-17-2024 at 01:47 PM. Reason: added info
Love it! The government has all the answers to problems we don't have. They create problems so they can claim WE ARE HERE TO HELP!
Having carried concealed for about 58 years now, almost daily, I want a load that It seems will stop in the target while delivering the most OOOMMPH I can create.
Love it! The government has all the answers to problems we don't have. They create problems so they can claim WE ARE HERE TO HELP!
Having carried concealed for about 58 years now, almost daily, I want a load that It seems will stop in the target while delivering the most OOOMMPH I can create.
For those who want to reload the .44 Special, this is a good read.
https://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/...%20Special.pdf
Thanks BOWDRIE! I enjoy reading and learning from those who excell with learnin' LOL I will dig into that information ASAP! Thanks again! WDW44
Lifes full of tradeoffs. What you choose for a sd load for your bulldog is no different. I've carried a bulldog since the 80's and still do to this day. Did a lot of testing over the years with several different bulldogs, snubnosed revolvers, short bbl'd pistols, etc.
In the link above (post #34) it shows standard pressure loads (15,500psi) and the lyman 429421 bullet using 8.0gr of power pistol. That load did 978fps in pearces 6 1/2" bbl'd revolver and 980fps in his 4 1/2" bbl'd revolver. Typical difference in firearms, perhaps the freedom arms has better/tighter chambers in the cylinder? Anyway, same load in my 2 1/2" bbl'd ca bulldog (target on right)
[IMG][/IMG]
The 2 bullets used in the test. Left is a 245gr keith swc hp and right is a cramer type III 200gr wc.
[IMG][/IMG]
Interestingly enough the 200gr wc had a higher velocity then the 245gr swc. The side-by-side picture shows that the wc is shorter/doesn't seat deeper in the case. Both were cast with the same alloy and sized in the same sizing die.
While both loads are accurate enough for sd along with easy enough to handle recoil wise. The slower velocity limits their effectiveness to open shots in soft tissue only. Anything hard gets in the way (glass/wood/doors/plaster walls/etc.) and the party's over. Wish I had a dollar for every time I've herd/read "use a wc in a snubnosed revolver for sd, you get xxx ft of penetration!!!".
A home cast 148gr hbwc doing 800fps+ out of a 6" bbl'd ppc revolver.
[IMG][/IMG]
Was cast with a 8/9bhn alloy, what that 148gr wc looked like after being dug out of that bowling pin.
[IMG][/IMG]
At the 600/700fps range the bullets bounce off. So do those 200gr wc's and 245gr swc hp's doing anything less then 800fps.
I prefer 200gr to 220gr bullets in the bulldogs along with getting them up in velocity to the +/- 1000fps range.
My bulldog is loosing +/- 150fps compared to Pearce's test loads. But the extra fps (+/- 1000fps vs +/- 800fps) makes a huge difference.
And yes I've tried/tested a couple of different wc's in that bulldog.
[IMG][/IMG]
My brother turned me on to the ca bulldogs back in the 1980's. Back then he setup a bulldog for his wife to carry. He cast/used a 200gr sp bullet (lyman 429303) with a lite load (4.0gr) of either reddot or bullseye (can't remember)??? The bullet looked like the pointed bullet in the group of bullets in the upper left hand corner.
[IMG][/IMG]
NOE Bullet Moulds sells 3 different versions of that bullet, 150gr/204gr/237gr.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...34-204-sp-aa1/
I'd be taking a hard look at that style of bullet. I did a bunch testing with the layman 358093 and the 249303 in anything from snubnosed revolvers to lever action rifles. For a lite/low recoil sd bullet in the 44spl. That 150gr or 204gr sp would be at the top of the list.
I don't buy it! There's no door, window, or wall in my house I'd trust to stop a .44 Keith bullet at 500 f/s, let alone 800 f/s.
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
This was my OP, and I thank the many folks with good advice. I believe I have found my EDC round, and it will be factory, 44 Special 125gr. Xtreme Defender Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo from UNDERWOOD> I will use ALL the suggested loads for plinkink and practice, but the Underwood shoot very nice in the Charter Arms Bulldog, and is exceptional in my S&W 2.75" MODEL 69. GEL TESTS AND REPORTS ON REAL TIME USES SHOW this TO BE IDEAL FOR ME.
Totally agree Pettpace! I have shot the "keith" at 600 e-fps and walls are like butter soft to those 'bulky" SWC! Many WC overpenetrate in flesh and bone, but often times knock through doors and glass (? really GLASS defeats the Keith?) As my earlier post I have seen how much old car sheet metal it takes to slow and stop the Keith 265grn, as I cast them back then, from a Bulldog 3".
Weeeelllllll there's glass then there's a well glass. People hear glass put in a context with other barriers like wood/walls/etc. and think window or door glass.
Glass like what windshields are made out of, a little different and angled. And ya things like slow moving bullets teach people to spell ricochet.
Anyway good luck with whatever you use. Choose wisely and hopefully it's only your life that is relying on your decision.
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