200 grain "The load " type load for hunting?

[LAKEMASTER]

I was wondering if anyone out there uses a reduced load for hunting. If so, what distances are you limiting yourself to?

I have the Lee 312-185 mold that drops 200 for me. Been kicking around the idea of using 700x and figuring out what magic charge the gun likes. My range ends at 300 yards so that will be my ending point for plinking.

I plan on making the soft tip boolits that people use for cast hunting bullets. Where you use pure lead buck shot ball at the tip of the mold.

My thoughts on this is the fact my " plinking " load is what I practice with, so when it comes time to walk into the field nothing changes.

[RickinTN]

What cartridge? Why go to all the trouble and headache of casting a soft point. For the pressures you will be running most likely a good 20:1 alloy should work well.
Good Luck,
Rick

[LAKEMASTER]

I can't believe I forgot that....

308 and 30-06

[frkelly74]

You could use a slower powder like 2400 or 4227 or even 3031 for a more gradual push to start them off. Higher velocity with lower peak pressure equals less likelyhood of leading, assuming you have proper fit to your bore. My $.02.

[405grain]

RickinTN has a point. Instead of creating some wrinkled (because the cold buckshot will chill the pour) out of balance, and probably lack-luster accuracy boolit, why not just use a softer alloy? If you want, you could probably get away with a really soft alloy, and be able to shoot it at a reasonable velocity, if you powder coat it. As far as the load, why not use "the load"; 13 grains of Red Dot. However, keep in mind that with reduced velocity loads, muzzle energy is going to drop off pretty quickly with range. Even if you can hit the target at 200 yards, you still need enough striking force for a humane kill on game. If I were you I wouldn't take shots where the striking energy falls below 600 ft/lbs.

[Mister Mac]

In 2007 Ed Harris posted an article he wrote for the Cast Bullet Association that he found “the load” for cartridges of 308/30-06 and bigger to be 13 grains of red dot with most any weight bullet either lead or copper. Red dot is bulky and fills the case half way or more reducing the inadvertent double charge. He stated that you can expect velocity to be less than 1600fps depending on caliber and bullet weight.

[frkelly74]

Of course we are assuming that these suggested powders are available
in your neck of the woods. I have had some success with Herco and cast , but I got a deal on an 8 pound jug at the beginning of the Trump administration.

[Duckiller]

700X is a great powder. In my 03A3 and about 11 gr I got less than 1 min accuracy with 200+ gr cast boolit. Never went hunting with it because California said I had to use non-toxic boolits. Have used smaller calibers in Oregon. Hunted but haven't shot anything yet.

[RickinTN]

Ed Harris' article is worth a re-read from time to time. I believe he adresses alloy as well. Although Red Dot is an excellent powder for such use it is not the only powder which can be used. Unique, Herco, 2400, and many others will give similar results. In his previous writings Mr. Harris suggested 2400 as the choice powder. The only way to know is to get your feet wet so to speak and give it a try.
Good Luck to you and post your results,
Rick

[Bigslug]

2400 is pretty well tested and proven for this sort of thing - best results typically around or a little under 2,000 fps.

I hit upon AMAZING accuracy for my .30-06 Ruger Hawkeye with 36 grains of H414 behind the Accurate 31-194D cast of Lyman #2 - as cast about 185 grains before check and lube. This is a practice jug busting load for a rifle that will shoot Barnes in the field.

Such loads are practically in the flight envelope of the .30-30, so you're looking at 150-200 yards before you have to begin treating it like a mortar.

[P Flados]

Even with a soft lead nose, I am not sure what kind of expansion to expect from a 30 cal RN bullet at the applicable impact velocities. Taking a file to the round nose to make a meplat and using a regular cast boolit from the softest alloy that will shoot good might be worth considering. For anything close to 200 gr in a 30 cal, penetration should be good at any distance where you have adequate accuracy.

Most any fast burning powder can probably be made to work.

Extensive testing was done to show this in a variety of guns. I can not get my old links to work to the parent GMDR lever gun page, but I was able to find a working page for a 170 gr in the 30-06, http://www.gmdr.com/lever/3006s170_dat.htm.

The page above does include some 700x data.

Note that the above testing frequently showed that accuracy went out the door when these kind of loads were pushed too far. Working up or down to find the most accurate load may be needed. Also note that in the tables below I picked a velocity that is probably higher than what your gun will be happy with.

Quickload does not have 700x in the database but I can run you tables with lots of fast burning powders. These tables are set up to show you how much powder it takes to get to the same velocity.

I view 700x as between Red Dot and Green Dot, but possibly closer to Red Dot. Using Red Dot data for a 700x load should be safe as long as you are not close to the maximum allowed pressure.

Note that I used a 22" barrel. This barrel length gave the best result for matching the velocities when I tried to duplicate the 170 gr test results from the GMDR web site.

Cartridge          : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .312, 185, LEE C312-185-1R with weight adjusted to 200 gr
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.600 inch = 66.04 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant BULLSEYE                    43.9     12.5     0.81    1600   100.0    36119    2809   1.601
Accurate Nitro 100                  57.8     13.0     0.84    1600   100.0    41820    2718   1.545
Alliant RED DOT                     62.9     13.5     0.87    1600   100.0    43446    2683   1.528
Shooters World Clean Shot           44.7     13.6     0.88    1600   100.0    41775    2641   1.545
Accurate No.2                       48.2     13.8     0.89    1600   100.0    37893    2692   1.586
Alliant GREEN DOT                   58.4     14.0     0.91    1600   100.0    42403    2679   1.541
Hodgdon Clays                       68.5     14.1     0.91    1600   100.0    46851    2622   1.494
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   42.1     14.8     0.96    1600   100.0    44287    2634   1.522
Hodgdon HP38                        41.3     14.9     0.97    1600   100.0    41897    2658   1.544
Ramshot Zip                         41.1     14.9     0.97    1600   100.0    41467    2667   1.548
Winchester 231                      45.8     14.9     0.97    1600   100.0    41467    2667   1.548

Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .312, 185, LEE C312-185-1R weight set to 200 gr
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.000 inch = 76.20 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant BULLSEYE                    38.8     13.6     0.88    1600   100.0    32065    3155   1.634
Accurate Nitro 100                  51.2     14.1     0.92    1600   100.0    36617    3056   1.575
Alliant RED DOT                     55.6     14.7     0.95    1600   100.0    37964    3019   1.555
Shooters World Clean Shot           39.7     14.8     0.96    1600   100.0    36400    2985   1.579
Accurate No.2                       42.8     15.0     0.97    1600   100.0    33275    3042   1.625
Alliant GREEN DOT                   51.6     15.2     0.99    1600   100.0    37127    3017   1.571
Hodgdon Clays                       60.5     15.3     0.99    1600   100.0    40618    2956   1.516
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   37.2     16.1     1.04    1600   100.0    38596    2971   1.548
Hodgdon HP38                        36.5     16.2     1.05    1600   100.0    36691    2999   1.573
Ramshot Zip                         36.4     16.2     1.05    1600   100.0    36349    3007   1.578
Winchester 231                      40.5     16.2     1.05    1600   100.0    36349    3007   1.578

[Rapier]

Try 10 grams of Unique as a start load, then adjust for accuracy. My 444 load is 12 grains with a 210, 30-30 is 10 wirh a 150 through a 180. Si in there is a point.

[Screwbolts]

Try 10 grams of Unique as a start load, then adjust for accuracy. My 444 load is 12 grains with a 210, 30-30 is 10 wirh a 150 through a 180. Si in there is a point.

Please check your spelling and advice, but as for me "10 grams of Unique" is a massive overload.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! 10 grams is the equivalent of 153 grains!!!!!! That will surely lock a bolt up and rupture a primer. LOL

Just file a flat point on your 200 gr. boolit and go hunting, it will work just fine at 1400 to 1600 FPS no expansion needed with a good meplat. Now the RN type Boolitz have been used for years to harvest animals.

[LAKEMASTER]

The reason for 700x is I have it and use it for all my pistol rounds.

I also have h335 type pull down powder. But I know that stuff gets squirrelly in partial loads. I had planned on keeping it for my 30-30 hunting rounds.

[SSGOldfart]

I use 700X in the 30-06,for paper and steel. I've not used it for hunting as Red Dot is much softer on my shoulder it might take a few tries to find a soft load that hits the same point of impact as your hunting load but that would be my advice would be to go that route. One soft load for practice and one load for hunting.

[centershot]

The Lyman #3 cast bullet manual shows 9.5 grains of 700-X is the start load for 160-190 gr. bullets in the 30-06, peak loads are around 13.0 grains. It should work as well or better than Red Dot. I concur that 2400 is probably the best choice, if you can find it.....

[35 Rem]

I can certainly understand the motive for using a powder you already have to come up with a low velocity, low recoil practice/plinking load. Makes perfect sense. But I'm not comfortable using such a load in a 30 caliber to deer hunt because there isn't likely to be much expansion at all. My personal threshold for acceptable deer cast loads is 2,000 ft/sec muzzle velocity. Not saying that anything below that won't work but I don't like learning where the cutoff point is on live animals. I guess you could do a lot of water jug shooting with successively lower velocity loads to watch for the velocity threshold where expansion stops or diminishes a substantial amount. I'd rather just load to 2,000 + ft/sec and hunt like I had a 30-30 factory load in my hands.

[Bass Ackward]

I'd rather just load to 2,000 + ft/sec and hunt like I had a 30-30 factory load in my hands.

We all have to learn. Just make sure you have a good pair of tennis shoes.

[Mk42gunner]

I used to shoot quite a few Lee 312-185 (IIRC mine drops at ~187 from ACWW) in front of 16 grains of 2400. Mine chronographed at just under 1600 fps from my 26" Parker-Hale barrel in .308. I never hunted with that load.

If I were to hunt with it, even with a BruceB softnose, I would treat it like an old .32-40 and limit myself to 100-125 yards on whitetail.

Will it kill a deer? Yes. Under all circumstances? Maybe not.

Robert

[centershot]

Early on, I tried the 312-185 in my '06 just because I had It. I found the nose was too big to chamber in the '06 but it worked well in the M-44. I bought a set of nose-sizing dies from NOE but that experiment was just folly! The nose diameter was .303, just like it was supposed to be but wouldn't fit any of the "American 30's" that I tried it in.