First Cast Disaster

[Bass Ackward]

You can answer your own question. Just be honest with yourself and your expectations. If you simply want a cheaper substitute bullet, just buy your bullets. Casting should be enjoyable or done to achieve performance and flexibility that you simply can’t buy.

The later creates a monster that changes your outlook to read, watch, or do ANYTHING to achieve it. If that ain’t you …. buy’em.

[405grain]

I agree with what the others have said about the temperature setting on a Lee Pro 4-20; you've got your temperature set too low. I turn the dial all the way up when melting the alloy, but once it's liquid I set the pot to 6.5 to 7 for casting. If the temperature is too low you'll have wrinkled bullets with poor fill out and rounded edges. If the temperature is too high (like ALL the way up) you'll start oxidizing the lead into a nasty tan/brown powder. Preheat the molds as other's have suggested, then do your casting with the pot set around 7. What alloy are you casting?

[Delkal]

One very rough way to estimate temperature is to flux your melt with wax. I you flux and keep stirring and all it does is smoke your temperature is too low. If you flux it and give it a quick stir or two and it ignites the lead is too hot. And, as Goldilocks said, if you flux and stir it some then it eventually lights it is just right.

[Dusty Bannister]

Please use SMALL amounts of candle wax because sometimes if too much wax is used, it will produce more fire than needed or wanted. And when it ignites, it will flash quickly. Bees wax has a higher ignition point, so keep that in mind if you decide to use this method.

do it outside until you see what is going to happen.

[Shanghai Jack]

So what's the cause of the bullet being "cumbly" as the original poster stated.

[dverna]

One thing not mentioned is alloy. IMO, bad alloy can give you fits. Are you using whatever stuff you scrounged or a good alloy?

[BJung]

I've read that the proper temperature for your lead alloy is to melt the lead in your pot, turn the thermostat down in increments, and watch until it begins to solidify. Measure the lead temperature. Your proper temperature should be 100 degrees Fahrenheit over that temperature. Personally, I just turn my Lee pot up to #7 and my casts are fine. I watch the lead flow from the bottom nipple. If it lows out fast like water, it's too hot.

If lead is flowing through your mold, it is not aligned. If you have a death grip your handles, doing so could warp your mold and the diameter would be uneven. Most likely it's an alignment problem. I use a Q-tip and dab the pins with 2 cycle motor oil. I also use a plastic mallet to align the two parts by tapping on the handle that attaches to the mold.

When I first started casting, I placed the edge of my 6-cavity mold into the molten lead. I'm impatient and starting using a propane torch to run the flame across the mold and on the handle area that attaches to the mold. The heat would transfer to the mold. Placing the mold to maintain temperature was awkward and I wouldn't lose heat from the mold compared to placing it on a piece of wood and definitely on a concrete floor. I discovered that a hot plate would heat the mold if I left it on the hotplate for awhile ( maybe 20 minutes? ). Now I heat my mold with a propane torch and might leave it on a hot plate before casting. Then, I pour 2-3 casts to further heat my 6-cavity up to temperature and I'm ready to go. Remember to twirl pour (I think that's what it's called) to maintain a more consistent bullet weight. You do this by turning your mold slightly on edge and allow the lead stream drop on the edge of your sprue plate and into the hole. Think of a liquid going into your toilet. Swirl it in and it mixes in evenly. Shoot it directly in and you'll get bubbles.

[vrod1023]

Sorry for your troubles. What mold were you using. I would suggest that you find a single or double cavity mold and try again. Sometimes a six cavity mold takes a few pours to get up to the temperature needed for the sprue to cut easily. Don't give up.

Thanks for responding. NLG mold made by Bulletcorp here locally. Will definitely look for a smaller mold. I thought I replied but didn't see my message in the trail. Will keep trying.

[vrod1023]

Ok.
Take a deep breath and calm down.
There’s no reason to be fearful of casting. There’s just a learning curve. Enjoy the process of learning and new skill.

Pictures of your situation would help with diagnosis.
It would also be helpful to know what mold, what temperature your lead is, and what you’re trying to cast. A video of your method would be ideal.

There’s a LOT of helpful people here that will get you cranking out quality projectiles in no time flat. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thank you for responding. Its an NLG mold made locally by Bulletcorp. It's for 9mm Luger. Don't know the temps because I have no thermometers coupled to the pot.I have tried several times now to add pictures but I get an error message but I will contact admin and see if they can assist.

[vrod1023]

Lazer thermometer will not be satisfactory. You need an immersion thermometer to get an accurate reading. "One try the lead went straight through the mold"? The mold has to be tightly closed to work satisfactorily. How many cavities in the mold? The more cavities the harder it is to get everything going well. I have several molds that I start filling two cavities, dump, fill three cavities, dump, fill four cavities, dump, and finally fill six cavities and the mold is up to temp and everything works - and this is using a hotplate to pre-heat the mold.

Thanks for your response. It is a 6 cavity but I guess I am taking on too much being a noob and take heed of the advice from some that I should perhaps try a 2 cavity and see if I'm able to get that going.

[vrod1023]

Crank the pot all the way up. Let the lead melt completely and then some. If this is a two-cavity mold, set the mold on top of the lead for about thirty seconds. Eventually, your bullets should start coming out frosty. At this point you can start turning back the rheostat. My old lee 10 pound pot is run at about 2/3's to 3/4's of the way up on the rheostat. I guess that is around 7 or 8.

Thanks for your response. I have renewed hope.

[vrod1023]

When the bullets start getting frosty it means the mold is too hot. Slow down and let the mold cool. No need to cool the melt in this situation.
Get an immersion thermometer. Start with your melt at around 740F and see what happens. There is a learning curve but the efforts are well worth it.
Good Luck,
Rick

Thanks Rick, much appreciated

[vrod1023]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is knock the mold on the sprue plate to break the sprue free
I do that till the mold heats up and then just open with a gloved hand after that
once the mold heats up from casting it will be a lot easier
Keep at it

Thank you! Will give everything a go soon.

[john.k]

I got a cheap IR hand held thermometer ...and the first thing I discovered was I was casting 100deg too cold .........for 50 years .......not a big issue with 45s and 58s ,but it was difficult to cast small buillets like 25s ,and brass molds just didnt work ...........So with that settled ,I upped the heat ,and some things were better ,but actually some were worse.........because big bullets like 45x480gr hold a lot of heat ,and casting cold increases production.

[vrod1023]

I have been casting since 1986. Do not own a thermometer or a hot plate. Here is my process. With the pot full of cood alloy, place 1/2 inch or so of clay based cat litter or oil dry on top to prevent oxidation. Place mold on top of the pot/ cat litter. Turn pot to maximum heat setting. Leave mold on pot for 1 hour. Start casting. Return sprues and reject boolits back to the pot. Keep pot topped off by adding ingots as the level drops. Do not touch the temperature setting unless the boolits get frosty or it takes a long time for the sprue to freeze. With the right casting speed and allowing the sprue to cool correctly and adding ingots you may not have to touch the temperature control.

Thank you! Someone told me that I need to get my cadence right. I will keep trying.

[vrod1023]

Hi vrod1023. I am in Bredasdorp just across the mountain from you in the Overberg, if you want to talk send me a PM and I will forward you my cell number.
I am sure I can help you in addition to all the great advice given to you here by all these very accomplished boolit casters! Heat in especially the mold is your friend here, rather have them a little frosted that too cold and full of wrinkles and not properly filled out.

Thank you hermans. Great to have a fellow South African on here! Will PM you.

[vrod1023]

Taking a wild guess here ....but..... good? I have to use a wooden mallet to get the sprue cutter to work. Its cutting through metal, you can't move it by hand and would burn yourself if you tried, even with leather gloves (ask me how I know).

I started casting only a few months ago so I remember all the newbie problems. If your mold is too cold it won't fill. No problem, throw it back into the pot and keep going until it is warm enough. If they are frosted looking the lead is too hot but for now you can still use those so just SLOWLY turn the heat down until that stops. Don't worry about making huge sprues either, those also just go back into the pot and there is no waste.

Also as has been said, use a one or two cavity mold until you figure it all out, six cavity molds are more difficult to use and I still get partially filled bullets out of them even now. But still, no waste.

And while you aren't there yet, you will find out that some bullet designs are made for tumble lubing, some for pan and some for powder coating. Hopefully you have a tumble lube bullet design as those are the easiest to do later, but even if you didn't get that kind you can still tumble lube anything and it will still work for now. You can refine things later. I'm still at the apprentice level of this myself, I have only cast about a dozen times (Though about a thousand bullets each time after the first couple)

Thanks for your response! I should have at least added that I am trying to cast 9mm Luger boolits. Here is a link to the design of the bullet. All I know is that if I bought these boolits from the factory they would be powder coated. I am also planning to do my own powder coating by hand using the "bucket swirl" method. https://www.bulletcorp.co.za/BCBC-Bu...25gr-(QTY:250)

[vrod1023]

Fill one hole at a time (alternating) until the sprue/mold gets completely up to temp. Use a wood mallet/stick to 'break' the sprue until the mold is up to temp, then you can open by gloved hand. Keep the mallet handy. Keep the bottom of the plate and pin lubed - wipe off excess with dry rag.

Thank you! I have some anti seize that I was planning to use on the pins and some two-stroke oil to wipe the sprue plate and bottom of the plate with.

[vrod1023]

I will add that even when you are doing everything right, it’s normal to cast some rejects until the mold gets up to temperature and you get your pace going. Even then some mold designs are more difficult to cast. In my experience it’s easier to cast short fat ones than long skinny ones until you get some experience.

You probably stopped just before climax, when it was all about to start running right.

Lee precision is the major manufacturer of aluminum molds here. Please read the instructions for their aluminum molds, if you didn’t get good instructions with your mold.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/BM1206.pdf

Thank you! LOL at "stopped before climax" hahaha. I think you're right on that one. Will keep at it. Appreciate the advice.

[vrod1023]

Looks like Hermans is close to you and willing to help give you some one on one advice. Take advantage of his offer, not all of us had the opportunity to learn from someone with experience, and had to figure it out on our own.

But, honestly, it's not really difficult once you get the hang of it. But there are a few things that I would suggest. I'm not familiar with bullet corp molds, but from what I was able to see online they appear to be similar in design to Lee molds, at least for the 6cav molds.

That said, if you're working with a 6 cavity, or even a smaller cavity mold, cutting the sprue can be difficult. And often requires the use of a hardwood mallet to strike the sprue open. Though from the one video I can find of that brand of molds it appears to have a sprue plate handle/lever like the Lees do. So opening with the handle would be the correct way if that is the type of mold you have. With that said, casting also requires a cadence. You want enough speed to keep the mold hot and in the right zone for good fillout, but not so hot that it is smearing lead across the top of the blocks or the sprue plate. You have to determine what casting speed this cadence is, and keep to it for consistent bullets.

I'm unsure if you are using 120v or 240v being in South Africa, but I would get the dial on the Lee Pot will probably affect what setting you need to set it at. In the US we have 120v, and I set mine on about 6.5-7. But whatever you set it at, having a lead thermometer helps. Regardless of whether or not you can get by without one. You'll want the temperature of your melt in the 700F/370C range, sometimes higher. But you shouldn't need to go over 800F/425C. The easiest way to determine all of this is to simply use a proper thermometer. They're not expensive, and will save you some headache. There are more fancy PID solutions with digital readouts, but this is unneeded. I don't use anything like that, and I have all the parts on hand to design one if I chose to. (Electronics is a hobby of mine).

Best advice I could give you, is to watch some videos on Youtube of someone actually casting. There are videos!

Here is a video with a "Lee Style" mold with the sprue handle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxpjBAUXAwE

And here is a video showing casting with a typical sprue plate type mold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4jT-37Fec

Bottom line is this, keep at it. You'll figure it out. It just takes a little practice to figure out what you're doing. The first time I cast the result were not something I was at all proud of. But after another day or two of trying I had good results. And two decades later I'm still at it.

Thank you for your response! I will definitely contact hermans. The mold is a 6 cavity and we are using 220V here. Of what you have advised I like most the notion of cadence. I watched a few videos of elvisammo on Youtube and he made it look so easy. That's where I hope to end up one day. Thank you for the videos - the one with the sprue handle is exactly what I needed to see. Lots of info to digest and mull over but another important point you made is the fact that I need a thermometer. I need to weigh up the cost of the manual vs the electronic options as the shipping cost from the US will be more or less the same and there is a member on this forum who makes them for both 110V and 220V. Priced late last year was $125 shipped.