please help with ingot ID

[bedwards]

I picked up several bars at an estate sale thinking they were lead and the gentleman was obviously casting fishing weights. Now I am not so sure after getting them home. They have "Hoyt metal co. ST Louis Genuine -A" " Not Genuine without signature HR Hoyt" They have no other identifying numbers.
A google search is getting mixed hits from lead to babit to nickel (I doubt this) There are a few threads here on them but none say what they are.
I don't have any way of testing them short of melting one. They are soft.
Any idea what I have and have I wasted money on them for boolit casting?

thanks in advance

[Winger Ed.]

Drop one on a concrete floor.
If it lands and makes a dull thud, is sort of a darkish gray, I'd call it more or less pure, and use it as if it was.

edit- those look too shiny to be pure unless they were recently cast.
To keep from wasting what ya have, it'd be a good idea to send a sample off to one of our venders
and have it checked out.

Or do a hardness test and see what temp. they melt at.
You can do that at home.

[kevin c]

Bearing metal (a version of Babbitt?) seems a good bet, but what percentage of tin and lead i don’t know (some are 90+% tin and others around the same percentage of lead).

If you can’t find a reference for the exact content of that particular product, you could perhaps have member BNE do an XRF analysis for you. It’ll cost you a small sample plus a pound of lead and postage (PM him for his exact instructions).

[bedwards]

This is the closest thing I have found tonight:
"
A. See thread 10770. "Hoyt white metal is generally tin & lead based alloys used mostly for the lining of bearings." [A similar, rather vague reference elsewhere refers to a machinists handbook ca. 1915.]

From 'Mechanical Music Digest' (Thu 21 May 1998) [www.mmdigest.com/Archives] "Hoyt metal -- two ply, tin coated, 84% lead, 10% tin, 6% antimony" [two ply refers to the tin coating] and "Hoyt metal is used in organ pipes... because they look like they have been nickel plated." . 'Mechanical Music Digest' (Tue 26 May 1998) suggests that Hoyt metal was made by a cladding process involving hot rolling. A book by George Ashdown Audsley on organ construction (1905) [ [on eBay , Amazon, AbeBooks] ] gives a favorable reference to Hoyt Metal as a material for the Aeoline portion of organs.

In a reference to 1920s Wurlitzer organs "The Harmonic Tuba of Hoyt metal was actually cheaper and used less lead than the Tuba Horn."

Hoyt Metal operated in the St. Louis area (Granite City, IL) ca. early 1900s: "Metal refining, fabricating, and associated activities started at the site before 1900. Hoyt Metal opened a metal processing operating on site. Hoyt Metal sold the operation and it was renamed United Lead. In 1928, NL Industries bought United Lead" This eventually became the NL Industries/Taracorp Superfund Site. "In March 2000, soil and waste cleanup activities were completed at the NL/Taracorp site." (http://www.epa.gov/region5/gateway/nl.htm)

A Hoyt Metal Company was listed as having a railroad (CPR) siding in Jan. 1926 in the Toronto area. (http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrain...n_sidings.html ⇩)

Another US EPA website refers to HOYT METAL CO, 231 STATE ST, PERTH AMBOY, NJ 08861. A Preliminary Assessment of the site was conducted, but no action was taken other than to archive the report in 1987.

Batteries Digest Index to issues #46-#57 (2000) lists Hoyt Metal 51-6 [issue-page?].

I was unable to find any business currently operating as Hoyt Metal or E. R. Hoyt (mentioned in thread #10770). Although your metal is not silver, it may have some value as a collectible or for reconstruction of antique musical instruments."


The gentleman worked for Pullman Standard out of Bessemer, Al. who made rail cars. Stands to reason babbitt bearings in rail cars.
I guess I will try melting some and see if it melts close to the temp of WW lead I already have.

thanks for the quick replies

[poppy42]

The first thing I’d do if it was my ingots. I’d take one ingot put it in lead pot, melt it, and cast some boolets. If it cast good boolets I would weight them. If the actual weighs close to the weight listed for the mold I’d call it good! Especially it I was planning to use the boolets for handgun range fodder. If I had a specific intent for those boolets ya know like long range rifle, hunting, or self defense, or silhouette, etc. I’d probably test there hardness. Just to get an idea what I might be dealing with. In the end if it cast nice boolets, those boollets weigh close to what they should weigh and they do what I want them to do who cares what the alloy is made of! Sometimes I really think some people can really complicate what we do! Man has been casting boolets from lead for something like 600 years. Trust me those early boolet casters didn’t have alloy testers. Or hardness testers, electric melters, pid’s, thermometers, etc… They threw what they thought was lead into whatever pot they had and put it over a camp fire. When it got hot enough/ turned to a liquid, they cast boolets! I seriously doubt they gave a rats behind what there alloy was made from or what the temperature was when they cast boolets! As long as those boolets hit and killed whatever they aimed at they were as happy as a claim! If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
Or you could always send some off to BNE and have it tested lol!

[bedwards]

Im going to mail a sample to BNE. asap.
I am 99% sure its babbitt metal with high tin content. It is harder than lead, melts sooner than lead and is lighter than lead by 20%
I have 60 lbs of this and am not sure what to do with it. I sure thought it was lead when I bought it.

thanks again
bedwards

[Barry54]

Im going to mail a sample to BNE. asap.
I am 99% sure its babbitt metal with high tin content. It is harder than lead, melts sooner than lead and is lighter than lead by 20%
I have 60 lbs of this and am not sure what to do with it. I sure thought it was lead when I bought it.

thanks again
bedwarsd

If it’s high tin content you can enrich more lead with it!

[35 Rem]

I agree on sending it to BNE. Anything that is suspect to have either high Tin or Antimony content is worth getting the exact % of both so you can stretch it out to mix with more of your range scrap or WW alloys. Both Tin and Antimony are expensive, so you don't want to use more than required to get the results.

If you were concerned about the exact makeup of one batch of range scrap compared to another batch of range scrap, I'm with poppy42 all the way. Throw them in the pot and start casting.

[WILCO]

I picked up several bars at an estate sale thinking they were lead and the gentleman was obviously casting fishing weights. Now I am not so sure after getting them home. They have "Hoyt metal co. ST Louis Genuine -A" " Not Genuine without signature HR Hoyt" They have no other identifying numbers.
A google search is getting mixed hits from lead to babit to nickel (I doubt this) There are a few threads here on them but none say what they are.
I don't have any way of testing them short of melting one. They are soft.
Any idea what I have and have I wasted money on them for boolit casting?

thanks in advance

https://www.finishing.com/188/84.shtml

[bedwards]

Thought you guys would want to know. So, had it tested by BNE (much thanks) and the results were:

Sn = 88.6%
Pb = 3.5%
Cu = 3.3%
Sb = 4.6%

What % would you add to wheel weights to make them fill out the mold and cast better?

thanks again

[Rickf1985]

Adding that to wheel weights would raise your Sb. which you would not want. This is an alloy that would be perfect to add to pure lead.

[Bazoo]

Wow, jackpot! I'd add 3% by weight, which should give you around 3.5% tin in your melt, which casts great.

[Rickf1985]

Bazoo is correct, 3 lbs. of that alloy to 100 lbs. of wheel weights will give you pb 93-Sn 3.07,Sb 3.05,Arsenic .24, Cu.10.
Another way to look at it is 4.8 oz. to 10lbs.

BHN 12.3

[bedwards]

thanks guys, that works easy with the Lee pot I have