Smith 696 information

[gc45]

Surely the 696 has been beat to death here but not much decussion of late so, I'd like to ask those who have one of these revolvers to respond, tell us what you really think after owning one and, do you actually shoot yours or just collect it. Prices on these guns are high, and reading about their thin forcing cones and potential for cracking makes one wonder why they hold value.

So to get started, I have the 696 shooting factory velocity cast boolits with Power Pistol but never hot loads, just 750+ using both 210 and sometimes 240gr boolits without an issue. My gun is fairly accurate within 40 feet when using a 3 inch red dot.

Additionally, I have about all the loads from Skeeter and others but settled on PP for most everything but admit to loading Red dot on occasion with 210 boolits.

Thanks to everyone who responds and in hopes someone including me, can learn more about this neat revolver.

[tinsnips]

My buddy has one 696 no dash first model it is a wonder full gun . It sticks in my head that using 125 grain hopped up loads is what caused the forcing cone problems. WE have shot the heck out of that pistol still works great. Hope this helps.

[rkrcpa]

I've had a 696 since they were introduced and shoot mainly Skeeter loads. Shooting double action (mine is DA only) I expect hits on the steel plate at 25 yds. Not just sometimes, most of the time.

[Never2old2shoot]

I have one. Every one who shoots that gun always ask me "how much do you want for it?"
the trigger is so buttery smooth, double and single action.
I have shot a bunch of different loads with it but settle on a load of clay dot (I have like 24 lbs. of clay dot) and 200 RNFP that I cast. Runs about 850 fps from this gun and is a lot of fun.
I originally bought the gun to carry, but after seeing how nice it shoots I decided I would not want to lose it to a police dept. if I ever did have to use. So I quit carrying it and just shoot it for fun.
Everybody who shoots that gun loves it. No problems with mine at all.
I hope you enjoy yours just as much!

[DougGuy]

I've had several of those cylinders in the shop to hone, most want .4315" for .431" boolits, they respond favorably at that throat size. One or two went to .4305"

[rkrcpa]

I've had several of those cylinders in the shop to hone, most want .4315" for .431" boolits, they respond favorably at that throat size. One or two went to .4305"

In your experience what do the throats measure from the factory?

[georgerkahn]

Mine is a -1 model (serial #CEA8xxx) and to say I love it would be an understatement!!! My favourite pill for it is a my-cast Hensely & Gibbs .44 Keith semi-wadcutter bullet, sized in my Lyman 450 using Orange Magic lub. The H&G 503 is labeled to cast 250 grain bullets, and mine come out ~242 to 243 grains. I had been pushing slug down barrel with Bullseye, but when I ran out and could not find any, I tried AA-5 -- which also works pretty well. I have a very few loaded rounds left, however -- and being able to since purchase some Bullseye, bion when I use up the remaining rounds I have -- I am thinking of going back to the Bullseye loading.
geo

[Bazoo]

I've not had a 696, but like many here, its one on my dream list. I might just go with a GP100 instead when I take the plunge.

[Chill Wills]

In your experience what do the throats measure from the factory?

I'm not Doug, but mine pined 0.429" pass, 0.430" hold. one held 0.429" Maybe it would be more accurate honed out. Not sure.

As said, the trigger is as good (very good) as anything I have or used.

I have had it (new) since 1998. It is the best woods carry gun I have had. It is with me every day.

[sixshot]

I have one & love it, I use a 243 gr powder coated HP with the Skeeter load most times & it shoots amazing. Shot a lot of small game, I need to whack to deer with it sometime, it wouldn't be a big problem. The single action pull is very nice.

Dick

[david s]

I have one and it's been used for carry duty. They are supposedly stronger than one would think around the forcing cone. Brian Pierce did an article about their strength and reloading for these in HANDLOADER magazine a number of years ago.

[DougGuy]

In your experience what do the throats measure from the factory?

Well, smaller than the diameters I am honing them to or there would be not much call for honing the throats, Chill Wills post is a perfect example of why shooters go for having the throats honed to a consistent diameter on all throats. THIS is the single most important thing for a cylinder, all throats the same diameter. You cannot size to uneven throats.

I'm not Doug, but mine pined 0.429" pass, 0.430" hold. one held 0.429" Maybe it would be more accurate honed out.

Variations in throat sizes create variations in pressure, which in turn causes the gun to recoil differently in the shooter's hands from shot to shot. In effect the muzzle is never pointed at the same degree when the boolit exits, and point of impact will vary with each shot or may group fairly good firing the throats that are close in diameter, and spread the group or even throw flyers with the throats that are outside the average size of the good throats.

[gc45]

These posts are great, thanks for the thoughts. my gun likes .431 boolits but i should measure the throats, see if honing might be needed. I do get a flyer often so maybe one hole is off. Not a big differance but a flyer none the less.

[DougGuy]

These posts are great, thanks for the thoughts. my gun likes .431 boolits but i should measure the throats, see if honing might be needed. I do get a flyer often so maybe one hole is off. Not a big differance but a flyer none the less.

I totally neglected to mention that along with uneven throats creating variables in pressure, they also create unevenly sized boolits as well, since boolits will exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter. So now you have a mixed bag of inconsistently sized boolits entering the forcing cone, could explain some of the flyers or at the very least groups that could stand some improvement.

[gc45]

I totally neglected to mention that along with uneven throats creating variables in pressure, they also create unevenly sized boolits as well, since boolits will exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter. So now you have a mixed bag of inconsistently sized boolits entering the forcing cone, could explain some of the flyers or at the very least groups that could stand some improvement.

Sure makes sense.

[Forrest r]

I totally neglected to mention that along with uneven throats creating variables in pressure, they also create unevenly sized boolits as well, since boolits will exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter. So now you have a mixed bag of inconsistently sized boolits entering the forcing cone, could explain some of the flyers or at the very least groups that could stand some improvement.

Yup, that's why it's good to test and retest all chambers in the cylinders. Then make a decision (if need be) to do something about it or not.

I have a beater s&w 629 with 1 bad chamber in the cylinder. Thru testing I know which chamber it is. It's only 1 so I don't take a shot using it when accuracy counts. If there were a couple chambers out of wack I'd do something about it. 25yd 6-shot groups with that 629. 5 shots in and 1 flier time after time.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

The flier is always to the right. All touching but the far right is a flier
[IMG][/IMG]

The was a sight-in target when putting a scope on that 629. Was aiming at the left bullseye. Shot 3 and adjusted left. Shot 3 more and adjusted left and then shot a 6-shot group (far left) 5 shots in 1 hole and the usual flier to the right
[IMG][/IMG]

That 629 is nothing more than a beater truck gun that rolls around in the tool box. It gets a steady diet of blammo ammo to shoot dirt clods @ 10 paces/plink with. It isn't worth fixing or I'd waste a little of my time honing/opening it up to match the rest.

[Thor's Daddy]

If your explanation on misalignment is true, to create flyers is true, then why say this?


Inconsistent throat diameters cause differ boolit diameters, hence, pressure spikes, and pressure spikes cause flyers. The post from you in one of my past threads is the best explanation of the forcing cones “job”.

Maybe inconsistent bullet diameters entering the bore... is more like it.

Or this....


you mentioned twice about pressure, which I'm in agreement with but has noting to do with the forcing cone.

Maybe this will make sense...

Inconsistent bullet diameters (caused by inconsistent throat diameters) may cause the bullet to enter the forcing cone at different points, with the narrower bullet most likely entering the cone deeper (or futher into the bore) than a fatter bullet. Of course we're talking teeny-tiny differences here, but differences matter when the game is exactitude. So too the mating of a "narrow" bullet in the bore versus a "fat" bullet. It is no wonder one can experience fliers in such a situation, or patterns on a gun whose cylinder has multiple throat diameters.

We probably don't need to get into the effect of cylinder misalignment on the bullet itself. When that soft lead bullet gets slammed into the breech of the barrel, misalignment may cause the bullet to become misshapen, and your perfectly hand-cast creation isn't going to fly consistently, no matter how perfect the bore. Oddly, there have been guns with rather poor cylinder alignment that are quite accurate. This is one of the reasons I generally don't get too wound up about cylinder alignment. It may not matter much. Throats, thread choke and forcing cone are paramount in my mind.

As for pressure. It may well cause the gun to recoil differently, but the shooter may never notice it. It will definitely cause the velocity of a cylinder full of bullets to differ. Bullets traveling at different velocities generally strike the target at different heights, with faster bullets striking lower on target than their slower brethren.

I would agree with Doug's assessment that the road to a more consistent gun starts with consistent dimensions, not only of gun, but consistency of bullet and load as well.