32 caliber for a Forehand Arms revolver.

[rebelrider.mike]

Hi all,

I'd like to try casting bullets for my old revolver. I've been searching around the internet, and a lot of the results I get are coming from this forum, so I figured I should join. Here's a few pictures of the gun:
Attachment 324128
Attachment 324129
Attachment 324130
From what I've read, this gun was made between 1890-1902, and uses 32 caliber S&W short black powder cartridges. I've also seen that this kind of ammo is pretty rare, and I think it would be fun to load my own rounds.

After more searching, it looks like it may be a good idea to make my own bullets too. So I found a nice set of calipers and some scrap lead and made a few slugs. After slugging the bore, I got these measurements:

Land diameter: 0.3040"
Groove diameter: 0.311-0.315"
Overall barrel length: 3.002"

I also measured the cylinder:

Loading end of the chambers: 0.3440"
Other end of the chambers: 0.3395"
Overall cylinder length: 0.9190"

I don't know all the things yet that I think I need to before ordering a mold, but from what I've read, the bullet diameter should be 0.001" larger than the barrel diameter. So I'm thinking 0.316"?

I've been looking at the molds from AccurateMolds.com and the 31-090L Looks like it might be a good fit.

[hporter]

Mike,

Just a safety note, I have a Forehand Arms .32 that sounds similar to yours given to me by a friend (your photo's did not come through, so it is hard to tell). Please find a tight fitting dowel (or even better a Brownells range rod if you have one) and check the timing of the cylinder to the bore. With it empty, slide the check rod down the barrel and cock the revolver until it "locks up" and then see if the rod will cleanly enter the cylinder. I scrounged parts for mine until I had it all together, and then checked the timing. It was way off, so I quietly put it back into the future projects box for more "adjusting". Your revolver might be fine, but it is worth the time to check.

Here is my Forehand - before I scavenged the parts for it. I have a short and long case in the photo because if I remember correctly, they both fit down the cylinder!



I asked Tom to design the 90L for me years ago because I couldn't find a Lyman 313249 for a decent price. He can't do a true round nosed design, limited by a .18 meplat requirement.

Here is a photo (poor photo) of my Iver Johnson Topbreak .32 with those 090L bullets loaded over Black Powder.



It has been an excellent mold for using in .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R for me.

Your throat dimensions sound a little large on that cylinder. For a revolver, you normally fit the bullet to the cylinder throats. To be honest, I don't think I ever measured my Forehand because I didn't get that far in the process. But I will check them tonight after work if you are interested in the comparison.

Best of luck with your project. It sounds fun. These old revolvers are a bit of American history, and though some folks don't view them as much more than junk and a waste of money, I enjoy loading for them and shooting them very much

{EDIT} If you want to try some of those bullets before buying the mold - send me a PM and I will send you a few to make some smoke.

[schutzen-jager]

not able to view pictures , iirc they also made them for .32 S&W long + .32 rimfire long + short -

[rebelrider.mike]

Thanks. I'll try posting the pictures again:




I've had it to a gunsmith who assured me that it's good to go. But I'll do the dowel check too.

I've read that some revolver chambers have a throat at the end that makes a sort of shelf that the bullet goes through. My chambers seem to be pretty much straight through holes with no shelves or tapers or anything. I think the tapering or whatever resizing happens as the bullet enters the bore. I could take some closeup pictures if that would help.

[HumptyDumpty]

Since you are just getting started, definitely slug the bore, and buy a mold to match, However, I have a wide variety of 32's and I've found that using .312"-.313" projectiles works pretty well across the board. If you have the chance to acquire some cheap projectiles, or if you accumulate additional 32 caliber guns, you might see if .312"-.313" works as your default diameter. It simplifies things greatly.

[dondiego]

They still make .32 S&W centerfire ammo don't forget. How much are you really going to shoot it?

[rbuck351]

With that large of cylinder in the front , it sounds like you will need a heeled bullet. Depending on the length of the cylinder, you may get away with using 32 S&W long or 32 mag cases trimmed to the length of the cyl and loaded with the boolits set completely inside the case. Otherwise that large front area of the cyl will allow the boolits to start to tumble before it gets to the barrel.

[rebelrider.mike]

Starline Brass has S&W short cases that are about 0.6" long, and if I'm looking at the 31-090L diagram right, the bullet will stick out of the case about 0.29". So the overall length would be 0.89", but that includes the rim which stays outside the chamber. According to a general Google search, 32 caliber rims are about 0.045".

So that leaves 0.074" of empty space in the cylinder. If my numbers and math are right.

I found a local gun sports association. If I can shoot there, and make ammo that works well with the gun, I could see myself shooting more often. My son has a 9mm pistol that he likes to practice with. We've gone together to a shooting range before. Though I've always had to rent or borrow guns before now.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever shot black powder before. I don't think I have.

[dtknowles]

It is kind of hard to know where to start this discussion with you. Do you currently reload for any firearm? Do you currently cast any bullets? What do you have for equipment?

I think that someone modified that gun to shoot .32 S&W Long wadcutter ammo. I think the bored the chambers thru. If it was my gun, I would make sure that a piece fired empty .32 S&W long brass would chamber and if it does I would shoot it with .32 long brass and bullets seated flush or below the mouth of the case. This will cure the oversize throat problem and also it means that one of the most common .32 cartridges will work in your gun. .32 Long full wadcutter ammo is as available as any .32 revolver ammo. That would give you a supply of brass that you could reload with round balls and other bullets you could buy or cast. If you are going to cast and this is the only gun you will be casting for I would get a wadcutter mold.

Tim

[rebelrider.mike]

Well, I have experience casting lead, but not for bullets. I have no real equipment yet. Just an iron ladle and a torch. I've always used scrap wood for molds. The don't last beyond one or two castings, but that's always been enough for my one-off projects. It's also how I made the slugs for slugging the bore of the revolver.

I've got a bunch of lead, though I've never thought to try to figure out it's purity. I'll need to at least figure out it's hardness before I'd use it to make bullets I'd be willing to shoot. From what I've read, people use all sorts of scrap lead for their bullet casting and it seems to work ok.

I figure if I can get a proper mold that makes a bullet that will fit well with the gun, then I can practice casting until I'm able to make good bullets. I'll need a melting pot to help make the casting less clumsy, and keep the temperature more consistent. But those aren't too expensive. And it would be really nice to be able to melt lead without an open flame.

From there I'd add equipment as I can afford it. If I hate doing it, or really suck at it, or I just lose interest, I can always sell it.

So granted I'm a noob at all this, but wouldn't an S&W long be about 0.9"? That would leave almost no room at all for a bullet. Unless the wadcutter bullet doesn't stick out from the case much? I'll need to learn more about wadcutters.

Also, if I oversized the bullet to 0.344" would it still fit the 0.315" barrel ok? I know that they obturate in the barrel, but I don't know how much diameter is too much.

[racepres]

It was Not uncommon to find inexpensive, and/or early revolvers, with the cylinders bored straight thru.. Inexpensive!
Were that one Mine, and I wanted to shoot it, ...I would start by borrow/buy a small quantity of Boolits. Mine would be .314/.315 (bore size) and I would load em and shoot for effect. Starting with a Boolit that fills the Cylinder hole, thereby providing the "seal" which they are supposed to do...is Good..But, counter productive, in this circumstance, IMO, as Pressure is Bound to Rise, while trying to squeeze that Boolit down that far..
I aint real sharp on all this...But, Feel compelled to offer my $0.03
Edit; While I generally shoot very "soft" boolits in low pressure loadings, in this situation, with such a Mismatch, I would opt for a bit harder alloy, hoping they do Not obturate on the way from cylinder to Bore! Maybe Wishful thinking...IDK...Just what I think.

One more Edit;
I did not realize this

They still make .32 S&W centerfire ammo don't forget. How much are you really going to shoot it?

I will be attempting to source some locally...will let ya know if Successful..

[gunseller]

Soft or pure lead is what you want for black powder. Black will bump the bullet up some at firing. You want s soft bullet lube. Don't worry about how it is formulated. We can spend days arguing about what it has to be made from. With a 4inch barrel it doesn't matter. A bullet of .312 cast out of soft leaf will work. Remember black powder must fill the case to the point that the bullet base is solid against the powder. Don't make rocket science out of it as it is not. Cast, load, shoot and have fun. After firing black powder ammo the firearm needs to be cleaned shortly. A mix of dawn soap and water works well. Just clean some time that day or the next should be OK. If you are using round balls with black you still need to have the powder and base of ball touching. Have fun with the cool new, old, firearm. There is just something about bring them to life. The oldest one I shoot was made in 1863. Have fun.

[racepres]

Soft or pure lead is what you want for black powder. Black will bump the bullet up some at firing. You want s soft bullet lube. Don't worry about how it is formulated. We can spend days arguing about what it has to be made from. With a 4inch barrel it doesn't matter. A bullet of .312 cast out of soft leaf will work. Remember black powder must fill the case to the point that the bullet base is solid against the powder. Don't make rocket science out of it as it is not. Cast, load, shoot and have fun. After firing black powder ammo the firearm needs to be cleaned shortly. A mix of dawn soap and water works well. Just clean some time that day or the next should be OK. If you are using round balls with black you still need to have the powder and base of ball touching. Have fun with the cool new, old, firearm. There is just something about bring them to life. The oldest one I shoot was made in 1863. Have fun.

Oddly...I have yet to load any Cartridge with BP. How would this be??
Single #1 or #0 ball pushed into whatever case fits...over???? Just how much BP please...Assuming the ball weighs between 40 and 50 grains?? The ball can easily be pushed right down against the powder with a Darn Pencil!!!
I have been loading round balls into S&W cases (simply pressed into mouth...not bottomed), over Nitro-100NF. 1.0 gr yields a very mild, and sooty 425fps...Upside, No Need to resize!!!

[Wayne Smith]

BP is easy - it is a case full or some compression - no air space at all. And you are likely to be surprised at how powerful the BP round is.

Yes, you need to resize simply to create some neck tension - otherwise the boolits will pull and lock up your cylinder.

[HumptyDumpty]

Oddly...I have yet to load any Cartridge with BP. How would this be??
Single #1 or #0 ball pushed into whatever case fits...over???? Just how much BP please...Assuming the ball weighs between 40 and 50 grains?? The ball can easily be pushed right down against the powder with a Darn Pencil!!!
I have been loading round balls into S&W cases (simply pressed into mouth...not bottomed), over Nitro-100NF. 1.0 gr yields a very mild, and sooty 425fps...Upside, No Need to resize!!!

Black powder is very simple and the exact charge isn't crucial, though the original 32 S&W was loaded with 9 grains (by volume, not weight) of 3F. In the past, I've just eyeballed it with 2F and an eighty-five grain projectile, with good results. I am not sure how much more the Long case holds.

[dtknowles]

Well, I have experience casting lead, but not for bullets. I have no real equipment yet. Just an iron ladle and a torch. I've always used scrap wood for molds. The don't last beyond one or two castings, but that's always been enough for my one-off projects. It's also how I made the slugs for slugging the bore of the revolver.

I've got a bunch of lead, though I've never thought to try to figure out it's purity. I'll need to at least figure out it's hardness before I'd use it to make bullets I'd be willing to shoot. From what I've read, people use all sorts of scrap lead for their bullet casting and it seems to work ok.

I figure if I can get a proper mold that makes a bullet that will fit well with the gun, then I can practice casting until I'm able to make good bullets. I'll need a melting pot to help make the casting less clumsy, and keep the temperature more consistent. But those aren't too expensive. And it would be really nice to be able to melt lead without an open flame.

From there I'd add equipment as I can afford it. If I hate doing it, or really suck at it, or I just lose interest, I can always sell it.

So granted I'm a noob at all this, but wouldn't an S&W long be about 0.9"? That would leave almost no room at all for a bullet. Unless the wadcutter bullet doesn't stick out from the case much? I'll need to learn more about wadcutters.

Also, if I oversized the bullet to 0.344" would it still fit the 0.315" barrel ok? I know that they obturate in the barrel, but I don't know how much diameter is too much.

Most of the time wadcutters do not stick out much beyond the end of the case
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index...long-wadcutter
https://www.wholesalehunter.com/nima...34100_Pic2.jpg
If you cast your own and load them in the .32 S&W long brass you will not want them to be oversize.

You can melt your lead on a kitchen stove in a cast iron or stainless-steel pot. If the pot has plastic handles remove them and do not use an aluminum pot, they get soft at molten lead temps. Heavy duty pot holds the heat better for better temp control. I did this when I started casting and my mother did not complain even when I fluxed with wax but remember to burn the fumes with a match. I was a teenager.

Tim

[dondiego]

I would not shoot that pistol at all if it has been modified at all. It is not a very strong design.

[dtknowles]

Black powder is very simple and the exact charge isn't crucial, though the original 32 S&W was loaded with 9 grains (by volume, not weight) of 3F. In the past, I've just eyeballed it with 2F and an eighty-five grain projectile, with good results. I am not sure how much more the Long case holds.

9 gr. of black powder is the same by weight or volume. My measure delivers Goex 3f powder at the weight that matches the volume setting. Truly grains is weight not volume. Volume would be something like cubic inches. There is nothing wrong with weighing you black powder charges.

You can't get 9 gr. of 3f bp in a modern .32 S&W case 8 gr. overflows the case, 6.5 gr. might fit depending on the bullet you do want a little compression. 13.5 gr. overflows a modern .32 S&W long case and I think 12 gr. would work.

Tim

[racepres]

I would not shoot that pistol at all if it has been modified at all. It is not a very strong design.

Maybe when I come down there for the Harley Drags. I will let ya shoot one of Mine!!! Yer missin alot of fun shootin smallish projectiles at pedestrian speeds.. 4-500 fps!!

[HumptyDumpty]

9 gr. of black powder is the same by weight or volume. My measure delivers Goex 3f powder at the weight that matches the volume setting. Truly grains is weight not volume. Volume would be something like cubic inches. There is nothing wrong with weighing you black powder charges.

You can't get 9 gr. of 3f bp in a modern .32 S&W case 8 gr. overflows the case, 6.5 gr. might fit depending on the bullet you do want a little compression. 13.5 gr. overflows a modern .32 S&W long case and I think 12 gr. would work.

Tim

You know it's funny, I never thought to try weighing the charge; I just used the volumetric measure, and assumed that it was different. Good to know. Of course you are also correct about balloon-head brass, but I actually have some which I do use. Many people say not to, but it doesn't seem to be a problem with these tiny, low-pressure rounds.