Suppressor Questions

[Barry54]

My Gemtech 5.56/223 suppressor is hearing safe with the exception of if used indoors. Outside or at the range (even with an over head cover) all you hear of the sonic crack is it going away from you. The crack is somewhat like a standard velocity 22LR but it does not ring your ears. I've measured the decibels and the decibel reading is less than 22LR. I shoot a Contender carbine and my AR all the time with it on and hearing protection is not needed. Might pick up more noise if at a range with overhead baffles in front of the line but that is the sound echoing off those.

With sub sonic we must remember the larger the diameter, the blunter the nose the louder the noise will be. Also remember it is the speed of the air moving over/around the bullet ogive that determines when it will 'crack. It is not the velocity of the bullet but rather the velocity of that air moving around the bullet nose. Also, sub sonic ammunition in handguns may exceed the when fired out of a rifle and can "crack". Most subsonic 300 BO load in 10" +/- barrels will "crack" when fired in 16 -20" barrels because of the velocity increase. Some 45 ACP with pushes 900 - 1000 fps out of my 5" M1911 and is very quiet with the suppressor on it will "crack" when fired in my 16 1/2" Rhineland conversion barrel because of the velocity increase.

To minimize "FRP - "first round 'pop'" with M21s with Sionics suppressors on them just before departing we would fire a round, leave the next round chambered and put a small "patch" of 90 mile an hour tape across the suppressor muzzle. That works well as the oxygen and cleaning solvent residue (the cause of FRP) is burned off inside the suppressor with that first shot. I have done the same when hunting with my own 5.56 and 30 cal suppressors and it seems to greatly minimize the FRP.

Has anyone tried a purge with aerosol keyboard duster or another inert gas for eliminating first round pop?

[steve urquell]

Has anyone tried a purge with aerosol keyboard duster or another inert gas for eliminating first round pop?

It's not that big of a deal. This is a great vid of my 9mm with YHM Sidewinder going thru 1st round pop to the next rounds. What I find interesting is to watch the fire come out of the suppressor when it happens. The increased noise is not something I feel the need to address.
https://youtu.be/dhLWoFPS6Ck?feature=shared

[elmacgyver0]

One thing I have learned using my Banish 46 on a 9mm pistol when shooting cast is some of the lead vaporizes and then condenses on the baffles.
If you plan on using cast through a suppressor it is advisable to have a serviceable can. You really do not have a clue how much a can needs cleaning unless you can take it apart.
Powder coating greatly reduces the amount of cleaning required.
There is a reason the suppressor manufacturers say to only use jacketed ammo. I'm not one to follow this myself, that is why I only have serviceable units.

[steve urquell]

One thing I have learned using my Banish 46 on a 9mm pistol when shooting cast is some of the lead vaporizes and then condenses on the baffles.
If you plan on using cast through a suppressor it is advisable to have a serviceable can. You really do not have a clue how much a can needs cleaning unless you can take it apart.
Powder coating greatly reduces the amount of cleaning required.
There is a reason the suppressor manufacturers say to only use jacketed ammo. I'm not one to follow this myself, that is why I only have serviceable units.

I had been shooting cast PC out of mine. Cleaned it this past weekend and the blast baffle, chamber and first 3 baffles are lead plated. No more cast out of mine.

[Plate plinker]

Most suppressors will perform well enough for most of us. The concern that I would focus on is how much the unit weighs, which is dictated by material and therefore price. How much heat the unit can withstand is also an issue worthy of some attention. I have a 30 calibre rifle can that is machine gun rated but is rather heavy. The pistol can is a 45 call but you can shoot 9mm or 40 through it and it works just fine.
Best wishes with the search.

[Milky Duck]

right ho....I own and use quite a few different suppressors DPT is arguable one of our biggest makers of them and theirs are awesome...they are easy to take apart and clean..or add more baffles or if high volume stick in a stainless steel blast baffle first up from muzzle.... they take a 270w with full power loads sound down to ABOUT same as a 22magnum the muzzle forward one I now own is as good as the over barrel I did have before.
I also have a muzzle forward waitaki engineeering can...its heavy and solid and they stood up to high volume shooting well.
also own a couple of gunworks spartan suppressors..they are now older technology and dont come apart howeveer they are a great unit..I had a 7mm over barrel DPT and over barrel spartan..they both went forward the same amount..the spartan was skinnier and came further back over barrel thus it BALANCED better in my hands..
I dinged the end of two suppressors using cast boolits that may have been of lesser quality looking back.... not ideal at all.
used to share single suppressor between the 270 and a 7.62x39mm no issues.
with subsonic rounds they are very quiet..but its a labour of love/hate to use them...heaps fun for plinking but for bigger game than rabbits,your shot placement MUST be spot on..I still carry a few in .223 and 222 for pests and finishing off shots at pointblank range...
your hearing will thankyou for it
now with a .22lr try subsonic ammunition in your rifle and might just decide to not bother with suppressor for that....its quiet enough for me..forsure suppressed is better for multiple targets who spook and run away but for the ones n twos we normally see I find no need anymore.

[Barry54]

@steve urquell Thanks for the video!

Must be great to fire test loads into a bullet trap in your shop in your pajamas!

The first round did seem louder, but the brass seemed loud dancing on the floor too. Probably much easier to distinguish in real life vs a video.

[JimB..]

I do not believe that unsuppressed SV or Subsonic 22lr is hearing safe even from a 16” barrel. A few shots won’t make your ears ring, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t causing damage. Goal is to get exposure down to 80db or less. I can get there suppressing 22, 9mm, 38spcl and 300blk but I haven’t got a 223/556 hearing safe solution.

[Larry Gibson]

It's not that big of a deal. This is a great vid of my 9mm with YHM Sidewinder going thru 1st round pop to the next rounds. What I find interesting is to watch the fire come out of the suppressor when it happens. The increased noise is not something I feel the need to address.
https://youtu.be/dhLWoFPS6Ck?feature=shared

Excellent video demonstrating the FRP. Note the muzzle flash with the first round and louder report. Second report is noticeably less with no FRP, and the report is then consistent after round 3.

[HWooldridge]

I assume the FRP effect is similar to what shielding gas does inside a MIG/TIG welding hose, where you can purge the line when starting to weld but still have some gas leftover after taking a break...

Sounds like the initial shot burns the O2 and any other combustibles, then it takes a while for the unit to backfill with ambient atmosphere again. A target session may never see a second pop but shots on a hunt could be hours apart - does a suppressor repeat the ignition event after some time period?

[dverna]

I assume the FRP effect is similar to what shielding gas does inside a MIG/TIG welding hose, where you can purge the line when starting to weld but still have some gas leftover after taking a break...

Sounds like the initial shot burns the O2 and any other combustibles, then it takes a while for the unit to backfill with ambient atmosphere again. A target session may never see a second pop but shots on a hunt could be hours apart - does a suppressor repeat the ignition event after some time period?

Based on what I have read, there will a FRP after about 30 minutes from last shot.

If you keep the action closed and put a piece of tape over the muzzle, no air can enter, but no idea who long that would be effective. That protocol would work for hunting but not on a range where a gun must be made safe.

[HWooldridge]

Based on what I have read, there will a FRP after about 30 minutes from last shot.

If you keep the action closed and put a piece of tape over the muzzle, no air can enter, but no idea who long that would be effective. That protocol would work for hunting but not on a range where a gun must be made safe.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks, Don.

[steve urquell]

@steve urquell Thanks for the video!

Must be great to fire test loads into a bullet trap in your shop in your pajamas!

The first round did seem louder, but the brass seemed loud dancing on the floor too. Probably much easier to distinguish in real life vs a video.

Thanks. I can shoot on my 100 yard range out of my garage so that is what you are seeing. What you are hearing is brass on the floor but also the bullet hitting my steel swinging plates 15yds away.

[steve urquell]

Excellent video demonstrating the FRP. Note the muzzle flash with the first round and louder report. Second report is noticeably less with no FRP, and the report is then consistent after round 3.

Thanks. I've done several vids comparing the shots to staplers and flyswatters so people can get an idea of actual sounds from suppressed fire.

Here is 9mm AR pistol vs stapler.
https://youtube.com/shorts/FqsxZeAN4Iw?feature=shared

.22LR vs flyswatter. Actually had to lighten the swat to a weak hit for the sound to be close.
https://youtube.com/shorts/pd1yKIlvzmI?feature=shared

3 different pistols. Note the loudness of the brass hitting the concrete vs the shots.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_qys6K8ia9c?feature=shared

This one compares pistol action noise to loads that do not cycle the action.
https://youtu.be/Hm3eE8AMREs?feature=shared

[steve urquell]

I had checked my suppressor after firing a bunch of 9mm cast PC with Smoke's powder. It was heavily leaded. I found one of the boolits I had loaded and fired. Loads were very mild 2.2gr of TiteWad at 800fps.

Base is pitted and eroded. Even that tiny charge blew the PC off and lead is vaporized and accumulates on the baffles. I really hate it because I had some sweet PC loads worked up for my suppressed guns. Only plated and jacketed bullets with base covered from now own for me since my suppressor has aluminum baffles.

A suppressor with SS baffles would not have a problem since they can be aggressively cleaned. Sadly I cannot do that with my alum core suppressor. Also I do not trust that gaschecks would not come off inside the suppressor. That would destroy the baffles. Not worth the risk to me.

[elmacgyver0]

It is not a lot of fun cleaning condensed lead from suppressor baffles. Breakthrough suppressor cleaner makes the job a lot easier, but it is best not to let it happen in the first place.
I have had luck with my powder coated bullets, but I do not know what the velocity was. Also powder selection could have a large influence as well as method of powder coating and PC powder.
There are a lot of variables. Once you find the right combination, I think cast should work fine.
Something is wrong with your powder coating if it is coming of the bullet like that.
The whole idea of powder coating is to prevent that or there is no point in doing it.
In using a suppressor, it really shows up any flaws in powder coating.
If it does that to your suppressor, think what it does to your lungs.
Makes you think twice about shooting lubed bullets in indoor ranges.
I don't have a lot of use for lubed bullets anymore, I never thought lead would vaporize like that by shooting.

[kenton]

It looks like the PC is getting dissolved by the powder sitting on it. You could try storing a few bullet up and a few bullet down for a few months and see if you get that pattern and to see if there is a difference.

[elmacgyver0]

It looks like the PC is getting dissolved by the powder sitting on it. You could try storing a few bullet up and a few bullet down for a few months and see if you get that pattern and to see if there is a difference.

Good idea.
Perhaps put some various powders in pill bottles with a powder coated boolit in each.
Also, it looked like the coating failed on the side of the bullet, which might indicate improper curing.

[steve urquell]

The boolit above did not have powder on it for more than a few hours at most. I was testing different loads and walking out to my range and firing them. These were coated by my FIL so I am not familiar with his exact coating details. That boolit went thru my target backer and was on the ground so it could have scraped along a rock as well.

In the interest of TiteWad reactivity I pulled a cartridge down that has had TiteWad on the boolit for weeks. The coating was not soft--I could not scratch it off with a thumbnail. It looks similar to a boolit which has not been loaded. He coats with them standing up in the oven thus the uneven base PC.

Loaded pull down:


Not loaded:


Overall I don't wish to continue pursuing shooting PC boolits thru my suppressor. I do plan on getting some breakthrough cleaner. Just waiting for my Amazon CC points to show up on my account.

Also I would say to anyone saying "You're doing it wrong" to catch some of your boolits and check the bases.

[elmacgyver0]

I am planning on using plated bullets for most of my suppressor shooting but have not totally given up on cast for some applications in my suppressor.