.38/55 Advice

[jednorris]

I have a C-Sharps 1885 in .38/55 with a 29-1//2" barrel. I want to shoot Smokeless and have been shooting 9.0 Gr. of Unique with a 255 gr. .278 dia. coated bullet. I am not getting the accuracy that I want, but do not know which direction to go. The weight of my bullets and powder charge are dead on. I tried case filler to hold the charge back on the primer, but the pressure variation scares me. I do not know if I should go to a different bullet weight or design, or different powder. Smokeless Powders for this cartridge are now hard to find but if I can locate a pound, I am sure it will load many rounds. What is the most favored bullet and weight for this Rifle and barrel length?

[ascast]

Uniquie is noted for not being position sensitive meaning it all light when ever where ever in the chamber. Personnally I suspect some may gt stuck to the bottom of lubed bullets and cause variation, but I only see evidence at longer ranges. You should not have that problem. 9 grns is a bit light for 255 grn piil, Have you tried more powder? 12 or 11 would be fine. I think I may have gone even more than that. IMR 4198 is a good powder as is RL7. 3031 and 4895 will also work but they don't have a reputation for accuracy..

[Fitz]

while not a C Sharps I have a lever action winchester and a 1885 browning single both shot good with reloader 7 and SR 4759 but that has been discontinued for some time, but with reloader 7 if I keep my velocity around 1400 they both shoot everything from 250 gr. up to 300 gr. and the Browning I can go as much as 350 gr. not having the COAL to worry about.

[Tatume]

I don't use fillers, but some people do with good results. Review the advice given by Larry Gibson.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...use-of-fillers

I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a filler with every powder....I DO NOT!!!! The use of the filler can cause problems if not used correctly and when appropriate. If the powder is not correct for the bullet/cartridge combination then the filler is not going to make it "right". Many want to use a specific powder for a cartridge because the powder is "cheap" or because "they have a lot of it". There are lots of powders that are not only poor choices to use but that can be dangerous if used in an inappropriate bullet/cartridge combination. Do yourself a favor if you are wanting to use an inappropriate powder (usually "no data" available is an indication the powder might be inappropriate) and get an appropriate powder. You will save yourself a lot of frustration. The use of the dacron filler only makes an appropriate powder perform better. The dacron filler will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find one of these fast burning powders that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want and avoid using a filler with them.

I almost always use the dacron filler in rifle cases with the slower “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc. with lighter medium weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 140 - 165 gr bullets in .30/.31 cals of 30-30 through '06 case capacity), the medium burning powders (RL7, 3031, 4895, etc.) up through the slow burning powders (RL19, AA4350, H4831SC, RL22, 3100, etc.) that give around 80% or less loading density under medium to heavy weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 170 - 220+ gr bullets in .30/.31 cals. Those examples are for the .30/.31 cals but the same guidance applies to other calibers. The dacron filler is used only between the powder and base of the bullet.

The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting”. It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.

The dacron batting comes in various thicknesses. I prefer that which is about 5/8" thick. My wife recently bought me 10 yards which will give many, many thousands of cast bullet loads. With this current batch of batting I cut it initially across the width into strips about 3/4" wide. I then "eyeball" cut 1/2" wide chunks which is close to 3/4 gr.

A smaller chunk is cut for 1/2 gr and larger for a larger amount. I've cut some chunks that weight 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 grs and have them in a "snack" baggie stuck on a poster board above my loading bench for quick reference when I need to cut new chunks. The batting will run thin and thick throughout the sheet so I again just "eyeball it" based on the thickness of the batting when cutting the chunks.

Pretty extensive tests have demonstrated that the weight of the filler does not have to be exact, only close. What is important is that there is enough so that it “fills" the space between powder and bullet. A little too much hurts nothing but too little poses problems. That's why I have the different size "chunks" so I can use the right size for the case capacity I am filling. For example; with most medium burning powders (3031, 4895, 4064) in and '06 to function an M1 a 3/4 gr dacron filler is about right. With slower powders that give a higher loading density like 4831 a 1/2 gr filler is about right.

I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod in cartridges of .30 - .375 cal to push the Dacron chunk inside the case just so it is all in. The 6 to 10" section gives plenty to hold onto and sufficient "feel". Merely hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and shove it in with the rod. Sometimes it takes a couple three pokes to ensure all is inside the case mouth. I poke the chunks in until all the dacron is at the bottom of the neck or at least all in the case. It doesn’t matter exactly where just so long as you don’t tamp it down on the powder as a wad and leaved a space between the base of the bullet and the dacron.

What you want to do is push it in to let the base of the bullet finish pushing it down and adding any compression against the powder. Thus I do not push it down on the powder but let the bullet do that when the bullet is seated. Using the right size chunk of dacron this method then provides a "filler" in the air space between the powder and base of the bullet.

A small length of coat hanger works for the .22-7mm cartridges and an unsharpened pencil works well for .45 cals. With the charged cases in a loading block I simply hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and push it in with the rod. It is quite easy and a lot of “precision is not required, just get the dacron into the case and let the bullet finish pushing it down.

Larry Gibson

[georgerkahn]

I do not know "rules" re providing loads on this forum, and frankly prefer NOT to cite any I use. That said, in my three .38/55 rifles -- a Winchester Model 1894 Rifle S/n 42,xxx which was made in 1895; a Winchester Model 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine S/n 908,xxx made in 1921; and, a Winchester Model 1894 38-55 Legendary Frontiersman S/n LF17,xxx which was made in 1979 -- my preferred bullet is a 255 grain cast bullet lubed with Magma's blue lub, propelled by a charge of 2400 powder. I got the load from a reloading manual, as, perhaps you might. Bion -- 'specially for the rifle made in 1895 -- I first loaded a half-dozen rounds at two grains below the lowest for this bullet which was printed. It worked so well, I never deviated.
You indicated "...you want to shoot"; no mention hunting for grizzly bears or tigers having a bad day . NOT my hunting rounds. BUT, these rounds provide better accuracy at 75-yard targets than I can, off-hand muster.
geo

[Tatume]

There's lots of good data at the Hodgdon site: https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

Some recommended powders aren't currently available, but some very good ones are.

[jednorris]

There -in lies part of my problem. I guess I should have stated that I use the gun for B.P.C.R. competition. Most loads are for lever action hunting loads and many use jacketed bullets. I slugged my barrel (I am not sure) at .377, could I safely try bigger diameter ? I tend to think I have the wrong bullet.

[Tatume]

... I tried case filler to hold the charge back on the primer, but the pressure variation scares me. . . .

How did you measure pressure?

[Nobade]

There -in lies part of my problem. I guess I should have stated that I use the gun for B.P.C.R. competition. Most loads are for lever action hunting loads and many use jacketed bullets. I slugged my barrel (I am not sure) at .377, could I safely try bigger diameter ? I tend to think I have the wrong bullet.

How are you shooting black powder cartridge rifle matches using smokeless powder? Special club rules?

[Tatume]

There -in lies part of my problem. ... Most loads are for lever action hunting loads and many use jacketed bullets.

The Hodgdon site I suggested includes cast-bullet data.

[1Hawkeye]

Slug the bore to make sure you don't need a. 379" or larger diameter bullet and then up your charge to at least 9.5 grs of unique without any filler.

[jednorris]

I never did check pressure. I put some toilet paper in the base of the cartridge on top of my charge of 9.0 Gr. Unique. Immediately I was advised by a couple of shooters that doing so could cause drastic increase of pressure. I am not a brave person and not the sharpest tool in the shed, I am not taking any chances.

[Rockindaddy]

Jed: I have a Marlin 1893 in 38-55. Slugged the bore and found it to be .380" groove diameter. My .375248 Lyman had to be opened up. Turned up a cutter out of a piece of 01 tool steel and heat treated it. Turned it slow with my DeWalt drill and a lot of cutting oil. The mould drops a 245gr .382 "diameter boolit now. Bought a Lyman .381 sizer die and punch from Midway. Have been getting clover leafs at 50 yards from the bench. Used 22 grains of WW1680 ball powder. But IMR 4227, 4198, SR4759, 2400, Reloader No.7, and 5744 will also work. I think Unique is too fast of a propellant. Plus it is easy to double charge a 38-55 Win with Unique. I love Unique but only use it in pistols. Slug the bore on that Sharps and try to shoot a cast boolit that is .001~.002" over groove dia.

[charlie b]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

These guys did some work with Unique (.375 Win) and their results show a very narrow load range for accuracy. I'd be tempted to use their 'best' load or try a different powder.