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Thread: Trouble with range scrap.

  1. #21
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Are you getting "any" good boolits from your range scrap? You word your first sentence ambiguously.

    You've been a member here from quite a while, is it fair to assume you've cast boolits successfully with another alloy with these same molds? I just want to make sure your problem is your alloy, and not something with your technique.
    I have managed to make some decent bullets from this RS but the majority have gone back in the pot to remelt & try again. When I say decent I mean shootable. None of them I would consider great as in 100% wrinkle free with good definition. It does seem to work better in some molds than others but the molds that aren't working well w/the RS make good bullets with straight WW lead. That said I have the WW lead in a Lee 4-20 & the RS in a Lyman mag25. I'm starting to wonder if the pid on the Lyman pot isn't accurate. I think I need to get a thermometer before I go too far down the alloy rabbit hole. It's a new pot & I've only ever had this one batch of RS in it.

  2. #22
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    The RS on this batch came out of an old closed down part of an indoor range. It had probably been sitting there undisturbed close to 10yr. I wouldn't think zinc would be in the mix but anything possible. As to what I'm casting for, pistol mostly. 45acp, 45 colt, 38/357, 44mag & possible 300blk.

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I purposely cast 40SW bullets with 2% Zn and pure. Shot fine for undersized bullets. No wrinkles. Wrinkles are from cold mold or alloy (poor flow also). I cast at 720F. Get a thermometer! Frosting is from Sb and hot mold/alloy. I don't use any Sn in my alloy.
    Whatever!

  4. #24
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    I haven't heard of temperature problems with the Lyman mag25, but it would sure be a good thing to checkout. Also, I like Larry's idea of adding Tin and Pure lead to your range scrap.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  5. #25
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    I have a bucket of stick on ww I've been saving up for "pure lead" & some sheet that's pretty soft. All I've got in ingots right now is the RS & WW. Reckon I gota do some melting.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy TomAM's Avatar
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    Has this mold produced good bullets in the past, with a different lead source?
    Wrinkled bullets from a new mold usually happens because of a trace of oil on the cavity surface.
    Just get the cavity extra hot by casting rapidly. If you're casting slow, examining every bullet, the mold won't get hot enough.
    Cast at a brisk pace, getting the cavity surfaces HOT until you see a whiff of smoke rise from the mold. The simplest and safest fix, and it works every time.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I got some indoor range scrap tested recently. It was 99.1% Pb and .9% Sb. This doesn't mean yours is the same but you won't know till you have it checked. I got it and some other samples done by our fellow member. You might want to contact him ahead of time to check his schedule. He stays busy with work and home and what he does for us.

  8. #28
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    I didn't realize we had a member that does lead analysis. Please tell me his name so I can contact him.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgms18 View Post
    I didn't realize we had a member that does lead analysis. Please tell me his name so I can contact him.
    BNE

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ripe&p=5008338
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  10. #30
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    Thanks!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    He's in the Greenville area.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    I'd crank the heat up until you see some frosting and try that.
    If that works, you should be able to back the heat off a little until it stops.

    This would be my suggestion. I was having a long spell of wrinkly bullets with a new to me NOE 358-135 mold until suddenly the mold got sufficiently hot. I had scrubbed the mold out twice with hot water and dawn, I preheated the mold on a iron plate on a hot plate while the pot warmed up. It still took about 50 casts to get up to temp. I don’t usually cast with aluminum molds and it was not what I expected to get the mold up to temp. Most of my molds have been mehanite or brass. I had been nudging the alloy temp up in stages until I found where everything was working, Once I did find it things were great.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    When I have a contaminated mold, I will open the sprue cutter and slowly fill the mold with molten lead. Before doing this, I leave the mold sit on the molten lead for about a minute or so. Anything cast in it should come out extremely frosty. This helps burnout any oils in the mold. I use Lee molds exclusively, so I don't know if it will work with the steel molds.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgms18 View Post
    I'm having a hard time getting good bullets w/the range scrap I've collected. Mainly wrinkles & poor fill out. I thought the molds weren't hot enough but it dosen't seem to get better as I cast. Then I thought I must have oil in the cavitys so I've cleaned w/rubbing alcohol & acetone w/no improvement. I've added a little tin (pewter) & some wheel weight lead & that has helped some. It's still tough to get good clean bullets w/this batch.
    on range scrap.. I run hot and add a little tin if needed.. usually get great results

  15. #35
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Boyle View Post
    This would be my suggestion. I was having a long spell of wrinkly bullets with a new to me NOE 358-135 mold until suddenly the mold got sufficiently hot. I had scrubbed the mold out twice with hot water and dawn, I preheated the mold on a iron plate on a hot plate while the pot warmed up. It still took about 50 casts to get up to temp. I don’t usually cast with aluminum molds and it was not what I expected to get the mold up to temp. Most of my molds have been mehanite or brass. I had been nudging the alloy temp up in stages until I found where everything was working, Once I did find it things were great.

    I have my Lyman Mag25 turned all the way up & still no frosty bullets. This make me think my pot isn't getting as hot as it says it is. It's a pretty new pot but that dosen't really mean anything. Lyman is Chinese like everything else these days. Will an IR thermometer give an accurate reading on molten lead or do I need to get an actual thermometer?

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    90% + of my casting/shooting needs is done with range scrap from an outdoor range. Everything goes into the pot and #100 bathes come out 8/9bhn. I like to run the rc alloy hot (725* using a pid controller). The cast bullets come out borderline frosted.
    158gr hp's/170gr fn 640 series bullets for the 38spl/357's.

    All these bullets were cast from rs with nothing added. No tin or anything else.
    [IMG][/IMG]
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    [IMG][/IMG]
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    [IMG][/IMG]

    Hollow point, hollow base, long rifle bullets. It doesn't matter, they all fill out.

    Been casting with range scrap since the 1980's. Never had any issues with the range scrap alloy. Now myself and the errors/mistakes I've created is another story.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgms18 View Post
    I have my Lyman Mag25 turned all the way up & still no frosty bullets. This make me think my pot isn't getting as hot as it says it is. It's a pretty new pot but that dosen't really mean anything. Lyman is Chinese like everything else these days. Will an IR thermometer give an accurate reading on molten lead or do I need to get an actual thermometer?
    I've saved this post that'll tell you how good they are for out purposes.

    Before I retired from Zeiss, at least 2-3 times a year I had to engineer systems that would measure the exact temperature of
    machined parts prior to measuring their dimensions. (Engine blocks, heads, etc. in Big 3 auto plants.)

    So I've done more than my share of study of temperature measurement methods. Let me say categorically that these
    non-contact "laser" measurement systems are almost worthless. They measure infrared radiation from the target, and that
    radiation varies wildly with what is called the "emissivity" of the surface.

    The industrial suppliers of these things claimed that they could tell me a temperature within 2-3 percent of displayed
    value, IF we sent a large number of samples to them so they could measure the emissivity and calibrate their sensors. Any
    time a sensor required replacement, they had to go through the whole rigamarole again. Any time the surface finish
    changed, ditto.

    Without calibration, and given unknown surfaces, they wouldn't guarantee accuracy to better than 25% of the displayed
    value! And that's industrial grade equipment costing thousands of $$. Bottom line, if you calibrate a Harbor Freight
    instrument against an accurate contact thermometer, you may be within 5% for the exact object you calibrated for. Any
    other object, you can be wildly off.

    BTW the laser has nothing to do with the measurement process. It's just an aiming aid.

    Best method is a low-mass thermocouple or RTD device, (thermistor). These are not expensive. Some under-$100
    Volt-Ohm-Meters come with a thermocouple probe. I have had two of these, and they worked pretty well. I've never stuck
    one into melted lead, but there are versions that are encapsulated in ceramic which I would.
    Mike

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  18. #38
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike W1 View Post
    I've saved this post that'll tell you how good they are for out purposes.

    Before I retired from Zeiss, at least 2-3 times a year I had to engineer systems that would measure the exact temperature of
    machined parts prior to measuring their dimensions. (Engine blocks, heads, etc. in Big 3 auto plants.)

    So I've done more than my share of study of temperature measurement methods. Let me say categorically that these
    non-contact "laser" measurement systems are almost worthless. They measure infrared radiation from the target, and that
    radiation varies wildly with what is called the "emissivity" of the surface.

    The industrial suppliers of these things claimed that they could tell me a temperature within 2-3 percent of displayed
    value, IF we sent a large number of samples to them so they could measure the emissivity and calibrate their sensors. Any
    time a sensor required replacement, they had to go through the whole rigamarole again. Any time the surface finish
    changed, ditto.

    Without calibration, and given unknown surfaces, they wouldn't guarantee accuracy to better than 25% of the displayed
    value! And that's industrial grade equipment costing thousands of $$. Bottom line, if you calibrate a Harbor Freight
    instrument against an accurate contact thermometer, you may be within 5% for the exact object you calibrated for. Any
    other object, you can be wildly off.

    BTW the laser has nothing to do with the measurement process. It's just an aiming aid.

    Best method is a low-mass thermocouple or RTD device, (thermistor). These are not expensive. Some under-$100
    Volt-Ohm-Meters come with a thermocouple probe. I have had two of these, and they worked pretty well. I've never stuck
    one into melted lead, but there are versions that are encapsulated in ceramic which I would.
    Wow, I had no idea. I been using a Raytek gun working on cars for 20+ years.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgms18 View Post
    I have a bucket of stick on ww I've been saving up for "pure lead" & some sheet that's pretty soft. All I've got in ingots right now is the RS & WW. Reckon I gota do some melting.
    If you go to the XRF SOWW Sticky you may notice that the painted SOWW's are close to COWW composition.

  20. #40
    Boolit Man sgms18's Avatar
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    That's good to know. I definitely have some painted ones in the mix.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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