"Best" Lube for Low-Velocity .45-70 Trapdoors?

[broken-mold]

Contrary to the title of this thread I am not looking for the one "best" lube of all available lubes for my Trapdoors. That question, probably responsible for many flame wars, is closely akin to asking, "Which is best, Coke or Pepsi?" "Which is best, paraffin-based Quaker State or Full Synthetic Mobil One oil?" "Which of your children is the best?"

I will be shooting some smokeless, some duplex loads, and some black, all low velocity grease groove boolits in my .45-70s. I normally keep Carnuba Blue (LsStuff) in one of my 450 sizers for .45acp and 9mm low speed loads. I have another 450 that I was planning to load with Modified Emmerts or another good lube which I could use with my Trapdoors, '74 Sharps, and 1871 Buffalo Classic, all .45-70 and low velocity regardless of powder. The Modified Emmerts would be;
50% Beeswax
40% Crisco
5% Anhydrous Lanolin
5% Jojoba Oil

I know that some have recommended a mixture of about 5-5 1/2% Beeswax to 4-4 1/2% Virgin Olive Oil. I've never used a Beeswax/Olive Oil mixture but would appreciate any feedback anyone could offer on how it performs compared to, for instance, the Modified Emmerts recipe above. I have also considered tumble lubing with 45-45-10 Liquid Xlox (LsStuff) for such low velocity loads.

Therefore, I guess my enquiry is more like which is better for low-velocity .45-70, Liquid Xlox, Modified Emmerts, or Beeswax/Olive Oil?

[Winger Ed.]

For low speeds, pretty much anything will work.
I don't get out the good stuff like Lyman's Orange Magic until my speeds get up into the teens.
In .45ACP going as slow as they are- 1,000 fps or under:
I've had good luck with the kid's broken crayons, the wife's 'fu-fu candles, and motor oil.

For what you're doing, I'd just use whatever was in the sizer, or what I had the most of.

[centershot]

Since you're shooting low velocity with a mix of black powder and smokeless loads, I'd recommend you use SPG for everything.

[Winger Ed.]

That reminds me of a article in a old Lyman manual where they were discussing different BP lubes.

One that came highly recommended by some old guys and worked well was chicken fat.
From how slippery and how hard it is to wash off my hands after processing chicken pieces, I tend to believe it.

[stubshaft]

Since you're shooting BP and smokeless, I would mix up some "Gatofeo" lube! [1# mutton tallow (dgw), 1# candle/canning wax (gulf), 1/2# beeswax (online and elsewhere)] Been using it for years in my smokepoles and to lube wads for my revolvers and shotguns.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 5 parts beeswax to 4 parts (volume measurement) virgin olive oil. Works excellently for BP, smokeless and duplex loads in my 45-70 TDs. Also excellent in other BP cartridges like 45 Colt and 44-40.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

Since you're shooting low velocity with a mix of black powder and smokeless loads, I'd recommend you use DGL for everything.

[broken-mold]

I use 5 parts beeswax to 4 parts (volume measurement) virgin olive oil. Works excellently for BP, smokeless and duplex loads in my 45-70 TDs. Also excellent in other BP cartridges like 45 Colt and 44-40.

Does this mixture work OK as a pan lube so I could try a small batch before committing to a sizer full of it?

Would the Modified Emmerts have any benefits over this mixture? I sure like the Lanolin and Jojoba in the Emmerts.

[gc45]

what larry Gipson said.

[Chill Wills]

Does this mixture work OK as a pan lube so I could try a small batch before committing to a sizer full of it?

Would the Modified Emmerts have any benefits over this mixture? I sure like the Lanolin and Jojoba in the Emmerts.

Your "Modified Emmerts" will work well for pan lubing. It was designed to be able to push bullets out of the lube cake with out using any kind of messy Kake Kutter device at room temperature. Heat the bullets in the pan slightly before lubing, I use bread loaf pans, and pour in the lube mix and after it sets up and cools, the cake should come out. It shrinks. Put lube cake with the neat rows of bullets, a row it a time, over the edge of the work table and push each bullet down into the waiting hand. Bullets will be lubed with the grooves full and no lube where it should not be, clean.

Pre-heating the bullets corrects the small air pockets that sometimes show up in the lubed Grease Grooves of the bullets.

You may already know, but if you put your bulk lube in an old coffee maker and let the warmer melt it, it will never get too hot and it will pour into your lube pan where you want it to go using the pour spout and handle.

[Kraschenbirn]

+1 post #10 (Chill Wills). Started out pan-lubing using SPG shortly after obtaining my first BPCR...about 15 years ago. Put together a batch of 'modified Emmert's' when I ran out of the SPG and have never looked back. I shoot both 38-55 and 47-70 at BP velocities without any significant leading.

Bill

[indian joe]

For low speeds, pretty much anything will work.
I don't get out the good stuff like Lyman's Orange Magic until my speeds get up into the teens.
In .45ACP going as slow as they are- 1,000 fps or under:
I've had good luck with the kid's broken crayons, the wife's 'fu-fu candles, and motor oil.

For what you're doing, I'd just use whatever was in the sizer, or what I had the most of.

I would put a caveat on that because of the intention to shoot some blackpowder ---any ole BP lube should work fine with smokeless at these velocities but not the reverse (smokeless lube with BP not)

[Brimstone]

I use Gato Feo too. I use beef tallow I refined from hamburger meat.
It has a lot of gelatin in it so requires refining via melting and cooling, removing the gelatin that settles in the bottom. Once done and filtered is brought up to temp to sterilize and ready for mixing.
Then it's the usual ratio of 1lb tallow, 1lb paraffin wax and 1/2lb bees wax.

I've had mine in jars in the shelf and in my Lyman 45 for over a year without issues.

I started making it specifically for lubesizing my BACO mold .460 500gr Frankford Arsenal bullet clone. 3 large grooves hold a massive amount of grease.

[Carrier]

Does this mixture work OK as a pan lube so I could try a small batch before committing to a sizer full of it?

Would the Modified Emmerts have any benefits over this mixture? I sure like the Lanolin and Jojoba in the Emmerts.

I use that mixture and pan lube for my trapdoor. No issues with pan lubing with it.

[Eddie Southgate]

Plain old black as tar Ideal lube . I used it for years before I ever knew there was anything else. It is the original black powder lube. I still keep a sizer loaded with it and use it quite a bit but I got a good supply that I been using out of for years. Not sure if you can still buy it or if the new Black Powder Gold is all they have now. Might be the same stuff just a different color as far as I know.

[john.k]

Moly powder and a enough beeswax to make it stick ......MoS2 ......best bullet lube ever ........steel coated with moly will not stick to lead.

[barrabruce]

Moly powder and a enough beeswax to make it stick ......MoS2 ......best bullet lube ever ........steel coated with moly will not stick to lead.

And moly grease they say.

But it stays on everything as well as the bullet.
One little drop or smear and it spreads for ever
From the load bench to all around the house and garage and the boss lady gives you that look.

Ohhhh.
Not for the faint of heart.

[Good Cheer]

Lanolin, olive oil and beeswax.

[gunther]

Ford moly EP tube grease works for smokeless or Black powder. Only downside is having to apply it a finger dab at a time. Very soft, but it doesn't melt or run.