I won't bid on this mainly because I am in a holding pattern due to a family members health issues. I may have to go out of state. If not for that I would be willing to drive from MN to SC to pick it up if it goes for under 7K. My guess shipping it up would be about $1,500 on a short load but getting it loaded would be extra. This might be a great deal but the timing is wrong for me.Originally Posted by farmbif
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-06-2024 at 01:47 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I run a HAAS ST-30 and a TL-3.
Check out haas tip of the days. They really try to teach you with their videos. Canned cycles are the cats meow for most jobs. And you describe the part in the cycles the control does the math. Then you set up the machine and tell it where the tools are, then tell it where the part begins. Most can be learned online.
And while you are setting up that program, I have made the part on my Logan.
exactly!!!!!
If you really are interested in a CNC lathe, listen to the folks with CNC experience. Both the good and the bad. A good hand with a manual lathe and quick change tooling can probably beat a cnc on first part if there aren't tapers and radius's as was mentioned. Who does tapers and radius's? The guy who wants to make his own chamber reamers or die reamers or bore those holes for the roughing pass. If you just want one part, plan to cut 2 pieces of stock. One for setup and the second for keeps. The second one isn't going to take much time.
The old HAAS TM-1's will do a lot of work, they are a hybrid manual/cnc but there are several generations and some of them had issues with tailstock alignment being hard to maintain. I also don't think Haas supports the controls on those older machines. I ran a TL-3 for several years and would jump on a TL-1 for home use. They will run on either single phase or 3 phase. But if you are long in the tooth, don't have any background, and get a machine that you may not have factory support for and don't have the background to do it yourself, the learning curve may well be overwhelming at times.
The home shop is different from the tool room or machine shop in that in the shop there are others to draw on and help walk you thru mentors to guide you in the home shop they arnt normally there. I have ran fadals, easy trac and a charmae cnc edm. The easy tracs were on bridgeport mills and dpms bed mills. bridge port romi had lathes with the easy trac on them. This was programable right at the unit or from cad cam.
I guess I should admit that I was a machinist for 10 years in two production shops, and all my experience there was on manual machines, both hand fed and mechanically fed. And, I have had and used lathes and a mill at home for another 50 years. So, when I need a part, I just go to the garage and make it. Pretty short set up times and no programming.
I'd also guess that anybody learning to program would also have to have learned the math and principals of metal removal that one has to learn to operate a manual machine.
As far as tapers are concerned, computer control does not in itself make a cut faster than a taper attachement. IJS
As I said, up thread, CNC wins every race in a production setting, but a gunsmith might make the same part only ten times over the course of a career.
The college I taught at had a TL1 and a TM1-P. My current shop has a new TM0-P. They are excellent machines, and I would recommend them.
I would check and see if the 2006 controllers have the VPS, or equivalent. This is HAAS version of conversational programming. The mills are ok, the lathes work very well. Basically, you describe the contour of the part, fill in the blanks, and it writes the g-code for you, The TL series was designed for manual machinists to break into CNC.
If I remember correctly, the 2006 versions should be open machines, with a chip guard. In 2016 they went to enclosed. They use standard chuck mounting systems, quick change toolholders, etc.
If you have any questions, pm me and I'll help you any way I can.
“The State that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
― Thucydides
“The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.”
― Thucydides
I'm retired now, but I used to be in charge of two different University machine shops. The vast majority of the parts I made were prototyping with manual machine tools, but there are two areas where CNC really shines: When making 500 or more identical parts, and when machining surfaces with compound curves (think turbine impeller blades). As for my home shop, manual machine tools fill all my needs.
For my employer I purchased a TL-1 and a TL-2 around that time. You could get them open or enclosed. In the shop I also purchased a 13" and 15" Clausing Colchester variable speed constant surface feet lathe https://clausing-industrial.com/pub/...es_09-2019.pdf
They were double the price of the HAAS TL-1 and TL-2. The HAAS ran circles around them for one off speed and efficiency. Even for the limited experienced machinists the HAAS was quicker for most operations. Threading on the TL's was way quicker that most manual machine other than a Hardinge HLV-V.
Both of the new Clausing leaked oil like an old Harley. They had straight tapped threaded holes that went into oil lubrication system. More of an irritant than a real problem but $60K lathes shouldn't leak oil when brand new. I had to replace the spindle bearings on one with less than 100 hours run time and several minor issues. With the HAAS' TL's I had zero issues over 10 to 12 years.
Some people are having a hard time understanding how quickly you can program this type of machine. The simplest example is a standard Series 1 Bridgeport manual mill verse the conversational CNC doing bolt circles. With the manual BP I need to trig out each hole locations. With the conversational CNC I would tell it the radius, number of holes and degree offset for the first hole. With the conversational CNC I would be complete before I finished the trig for the manual machine.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-07-2024 at 01:38 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I'm retired and don't have a dog in this fight but for years I was just as stubborn as every other manual machinist in thinking you can't cnc simple single parts faster then manual what with programming and all .
Then I went to friends shop about a month after he got a milltronics tool room lathe .
Right in front of my eyes using the conversational programming he programmed two simple parts with threads a shoulder and chamfers and had both pieces finished in less time then it would have taken me to make the first part .
I quit showing my bias and ignorance about cnc right then , he proved me and 30 years of experience wrong with a months worth of experience.
Like you I am retired. Unlike you I (for work) purchased a new conversational two axis Bridgeport Series 1 EZ Trak SX in 1995 and a EZ Trak DX in 1996 or 1997. Later I added a HAAS TL-1, TL-2 and a VF-4. The conversational controls on the TL's and the Bridgeport's are very user friendly. Trained about a dozen manual machinists to use the TL's and EZ Trak. Comparatively learning the programing for the VF-4 was a challenge for me. I rarely ran it as I had people that were good at it. Programing the VF-4 is much different than the very quick canned cycle on the TL's or the B-Port's
While I really miss thread milling and some of the CNC capabilities for my home shop I went 100% manual. The thought of having to spend $5K to $15K of electronic repairs on a 20 year old CNC is not something I want to deal with. I have all the required attachments like a standard B-Port 15" rotary table, an Advance 12" cross slide rotate tables, Volstro Rotary Head, right angle head, cherrying head and a shaper head.
Compared to the conversational CNC my current methods are slower but I am retired so being slower is a better option for me than possible electronic repair bills. I can rebuild most manual machines myself. When it comes to electronics I struggle since I am mostly color blind.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-07-2024 at 05:35 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
A $60K machine shouldn't leak oil for a long, long time. But it happens.
I worked in a toolroom where we purchased a Kellenberger grinder. It leaked coolant all over the place from day 1. When we called the salesman back in, he couldn't understand why we were so mad about a brand new, $250K, German OD/ID grinder pumping coolant all over the floor.... Needless to say, that was the last one of those we bought.....
With the new DRO's on a Bridgeport, I can cut a bolt circle pretty fast. It calculates the X,Y positions, and tells you when you're there. But I still have to move it, and pull the handle. I've run a lot of parts on manual machines, and if I was retired that'd be the way I'd go for sure. I have manual machines in the shop, and I use them when it makes sense.
With the TM-0P I can not only program it faster, it changes tools and moves itself. Today I was running parts on the CNC lathe, CNC mill, and CNC router at the same time. While those were running, I was meeting with an engineering grad student about a project. Oh, and my 3D printer was running a batch of parts all day in my office. Running another batch overnight, be ready in the morning.
With the workload I have, and it being just me, manual machines just aren't the way to go most days.
“The State that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
― Thucydides
“The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.”
― Thucydides
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