Breech seating tool

[Rockingkj]

I acquired this breech seating tool for my 28-30 Stevens. Came from the same guy I got the rifle from last year. Figured I better reunify the two. What is the real advantage of breech seating?

[marlinman93]

Increased accuracy is the biggest advantage. Having a bullet gently seated into the barrel vs. jumping into the rifling from a case has proven to increase accuracy for over 100 years.
Then there's the fact you could shoot a rifle using the exact same case all year at matches, and probably not wear it out. Being able to pop a new primer into a case, charge it, and seat a bullet again to shoot. Never any questions if two cases are the exact same, since you're only using one.
And if conditions change at the range you can play with the powder charge a little to see if the gun shoots better with a little change in powder charge. Great when you're working up loads, or just trying to improve loads on a particular day.
Breech seated cartridges also shoot at lower pressures with equal powder charges due to the extra case capacity. So often you need to increase the powder charge to get to the same velocity of a fixed load in the same gun and cartridge.
I use a hand re-decapping tool, and my Harrell's powder measure to play with loads at the range. Only issue I've had is the occasional range officer who thinks it's dangerous having a powder measure at the bench. So then I have to setup my measure away from the bench to charge a case, and return to the bench to breech seat and shoot it.
Looks like a nice Weber tool you got with your Stevens!

[Rockingkj]

Thanks will have to try it out. Do you use a card in the mouth of the loaded case or is that even needed? Got a 2nd tool in 32-40 but no idea what rifle it’s built for. Seemed a good idea to buy both of the tools.

[Gunlaker]

Take good care of those breech seaters. They were made by Russ Weber who is no longer with us. They are the best breech seaters I've ever used.

You don't generally need a wad for any of the old cases when using smokeless. Just adjust the tool plunger so that the bullet is 1/2 engraved on the base driving band and you are off to a good start.

There is generally a big difference in accuracy with breech seated bullets over fixed ammunition. In my 32-40's and 38-55's I'd say it results in groups about 1/2 minute ( or more ) smaller at 100 & 200 yards.

Chris.

[marlinman93]

Thanks will have to try it out. Do you use a card in the mouth of the loaded case or is that even needed? Got a 2nd tool in 32-40 but no idea what rifle it’s built for. Seemed a good idea to buy both of the tools.

I avoid wads or fillers of any kind. With smokeless powders there's no need for them, and a wad can cause big problems if it's over the powder and the space between powder and bullet can cause a chamber to be ringed or bulged.

[Shanghai Jack]

There are accuracy stories from the old days of breech seating. One of the most interesting involves having a indexing mark on the bullet and for every round, moving the index 1 hour clockwise i.e. index mark at 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock etc. It was said that from a gun vise and maintainingg the same sight picture that one could shoot a circle on a target by just changing the indexing of the bullet. One of these days I'm gonna try it.

[Shanghai Jack]

And yeah, every once in a while I get the "knowledgeable" range officer who informs me that "pounding the bullet into the barrel" is going to blow up my gun.

[Rockingkj]

Great information. I will probably part with the 32-40 seater at some point since I don’t own a rifle for it.

Ps this looks like another rabbit hole!!!

[marlinman93]

I own a Ballard cased set with a Pope .28 Special that is a muzzleloader barrel. Will Hayes asked George Schalk to build him a ML barrel for his Ballard #6 Schuetzen model and Schalk balked at first, but finally gave in. Hayes went on to win almost every match he used the Ballard ML in!
When Hayes introduced Pope to Schalk, Pope and Schalk discussed Shalk's method of building ML barrels for breech seating cartridge rifles, and Pope went on to build more of them than probably anyone else did then.
That all ended when the method of breech seating bullets from the chamber end was invented. It was quickly determined the breech seated bullets shot as accurately as ML bullets, and a lot less tiring on the shooter to breech seat vs. ML a bullet!
I have only played with my Pope and Schoyen barreled rifles done as ML, and found breech seating a bullet in both guns is just as accurate, with far less effort.

[Rockingkj]

I will definitely have to give it a try. Easy enough done since I have loaded rounds for my 28-30 and can breech seat a target to compare performance. Finding as I age seeing the target is more of an issue than it used to be. The rifle might be able to put em in one hole, just not sure I can. Lol

[Gtek]

I have a Win/Jap Hi-Wall 32-40 that has not seen a jacket, started breech seating out of the box. Low to mid 240's way back when all three were in focus with safety glasses, then it turned into pick one with the scripts so she now wears glass also. I made one for mine that is adjustable and ran them at 0.060" ahead of case mouth. The old guard snarled at my 70's vintage Hurst shifter lever handle, (probably why I did it). I was instructed into the Kapok/floral foam in the Miller tribe along with all the ringing horror stories, no issues yet.

[gnoahhh]

I'm another breech seating devotee. I will say though that I use either a 1/8" hard felt wad (and sometimes a greased felt wad) pressed into the case mouth so it protrudes enough to touch the bullet base. I do it mainly to prevent powder spillage if I accidentally jostle case on its trip to the chamber (I had it happen a couple times). I tested with my guns and can't tell a difference in accuracy, so at least it doesn't hurt.

[M-Tecs]

There are accuracy stories from the old days of breech seating. One of the most interesting involves having a indexing mark on the bullet and for every round, moving the index 1 hour clockwise i.e. index mark at 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock etc. It was said that from a gun vise and maintainingg the same sight picture that one could shoot a circle on a target by just changing the indexing of the bullet. One of these days I'm gonna try it.

I've read about indexing cases but not so much for bullets. I am having a hard time visualizing how you index a bullet and what do you index it to? Yes, people put prick punch marks in molds for various reasons. Case rarely are 100% straight or concentric so measuring and index case has a proven affect.

If I own a mold that opens the group without indexing the mold gets repaired or replaced.

[Wayne Smith]

I would imagine some soft sticky wax to stick the boolit to the tool. The boolits would have to be cast with an indexing mark on the mold, then you have a standard point of reference. I don't do it myself, but can see how it would work.

[Gtek]

I have an early Hoch mold I picked up used and it has a very light center punch half way out on nose on one side. I have seen way back where some of the old guard "V" filed a notch for twelve O'clock positioning, the one case guys. They also had shooting boxes that looked like custom antique furniture with brass corners, slide out trays with there SPECIAL pills and inlaid tool areas, fold up rest under the lids. Absolute art at its finest, those are also the guys that shot 247-250 paper and always made me between sixth and tenth depending on who showed up! Characters from the old school and I feel very blessed to have had the experience, they were great guys!

[M-Tecs]

I have several molds that have indexing marks or marks to indicate what cavity the bullet came from out of a multiple cavity mold. also. I've only done limited testing, but I have never found bullet indexing reduced group size. When I first got into BPCR I played with case and bullet indexing, but I found no benefit to either unless the brass had issues.

Not cast or breech seating but before 6.5/284 brass was available three of us split a 5,500-round barrel of 284 Winchester brass to form 6.5/284. That was the worst brass I've ever seen. It was both banana shaped and out of concentric. We had to index all of the cases to meet the accuracy required for long range competition.

[country gent]

Indexing is some fiddling around but it may improve accuracy to some degree. A case is marked on the rim to go in the chamber the same each way. any case variances are neutralized this way. The mould ( normally a single cavity) was marked with a small punch mark ti id where its was rotation-ally in the mould. Then if fixed ammo the case was indexed into the sizing die the same. charged primed and loaded with the bullet also oriented to the case / die. This was then loaded into the chamber in the same location. The thought was any uneven case walls neck walls out of round out of balance would be the same doing this.

At one time the Junke machine was in use it measured jackets bullets electrically to determine if jackets were concentric and the cores centered....

[M-Tecs]

At one time the Junke machine was in use it measured jackets bullets electrically to determine if jackets were concentric and the cores centered....

They still are but I am not aware of anyone using it for indexing. They are used it for sorting same as weighting. I've seen benefits from indexing brass. Bullets not so much.

[Rockingkj]

I’m probably wrong but thinking indexing the case on a breech seated bullet would have little difference since the case is not touching the bullet. Thoughts? I can grasp the thought of indexing bullet for consistency.

[Gtek]

Probably at the end of the day a valid question. These guys probably had the same breakfast, same socks and shoes required for the Schutzenfest, but when they pull off a 249 12X open sights questioning them was not in my plan, I was a twenty year old with a Jap rifle. They had 100 year old rifles that were worth ten to fifteen times my brand new Win/Jap, The one thing I think I do know is every barrel and every receiver, every stock, every shooter, and everyday is a chapter unto itself. Trigger time and experimentation is required to get into the end zone or close to it!