Cimmaron 1873 Indian Territory carbine on order.......throat size guess/expectations?

[Bazoo]

No pictures? Congratulations though. It sounds nice.

If I was going to have any custom work done on my sights, I'd start by calling Fermin Garza (he's nice to talk to on the phone). https://fermincgarza.com/ He could make you about any sight you want.

[Lance Boyle]

Still on hold due to the short front sight.

Hopefully Cimarron has a good resolution and has a taller front sight band.

As a complete aside I ordered a taller front sight for my LRB 18” short barrel M14. It had a standard height NM post on it for years that was a few clicks away from happiness. I already installed it yesterday. Took less than 48 hours from order to install.


EDIT FOR QUESTION.

DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ONE OF THESE CIMARRON US MARTIAL Indian Territory rifles? Or any Uberti 18” .357 or any other cal for that matter with the front barrel band that is also the front sight?

I am really curious on the sight heights from above the top surface of the barrel to the tip of the sight. Mine should likely be about a tenth of an inch higher. I wonder if they accidentally installed one for a .45 colt or .44 cal. The .357 shares the same mag tube diameter size so I imagine the parts can be installed across the models even when they shouldn’t be.

[Lance Boyle]

Sent rifle back to Cimarron for evaluation. I couldn’t get the sights near point of impact as there is no lower adjustment with ladder sight, folded down is fixed, erected the lowest setting isn’t lower than the fixed.

They kindly footed the bill and my FFL was kind enough to pack and get it shipped. I was hoping they could just swap out the front sight/ integral barrel band. Apparently no such luck. They were up front, 5-8 weeks for an evaluation and hopeful fix with on hand parts or up to three additional months if they have to order parts from Italy, ie if they want to change barrels.

I was almost going to suggest swapping to a no front sight band and dovetailing the barrel like the other models,....presuming there is enough barrel wall to do so.

Such is life. Of course my Lee 125 grain mold was delayed in shipping so I never got to test that. Might have gotten me closer to the sights.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Don't immediately discount SWC's. My buddy has a Rossi 92 in .357, and it handles SWC's without a hitch.

[Wayne Smith]

I have an older Uberti short rifle (20" barrel) in 44-40 and the front sight is dovetailed into the barrel. It was shipped from Italy like that. For what it's worth.

[Lance Boyle]

charlie, I did try them, while not as smooth as they likely were banging and deforming the sharp edge, they did cycle and shoot a pretty good group, albeit 12-14” high.

[Thin Man]

I have an older Rossi '92 (so old it is branded Interarms) in .357 Magnum with the short 16" Trapper length barrel. The front sight post is a permanent part of the front barrel band. The top of the front sight post is 0.400" tall over the barrel. The original rear sight has been removed (with slot insert installed) and a Lyman #66A receiver sight installed on the left side of the receiver. It could be that a former owner (I bought this rifle as an estate consignment) had the same issue as you now have (sight regulation) and this was his fix to overcome it. This receiver sight regulates nicely and is a much simpler correction than having to fight against a permanently placed front sight. Hope this helps your consideration.

[Lance Boyle]

One could go with a tang mount sight. I like your receiver sights much better but I don’t think that was an option on the ‘73.

Here’s to hoping I get a gun that shoots close to the sights when I get it back.

[Wheelgun]

What range are you shooting? How high at different yardage??

I’ve had several Uberti 1866 & 1873s. All the Carbines & saddle ring carbines had the sight on the band. The Rifle and Short Rifles all had dovetail front sites.

I happed to right down about a couple of them…

The 357 I had was a short rifle (20’ octagon) so it was dovetailed and shot to POA at 50yds with 158gr on shorted/lowest notch…

The SRC was 44/40 was on the barrel band and shot POA @ 40yds with 200gr on the flipped down ladder sight…

My Rifle (24” octagon) was dovetailed and shot POA @ 50yrd on the bottom setting with 250gr.

Also it’s a straight feed from the carrier block so it should feed swc fine, mine fed everything like butter…

[Lance Boyle]

Wheel gun, I am sorry I didn’t see your post for all this time.

I was shooting at 25, 50 and even a 100 yards with mostly the Federal .38 special 158 LRN factory stuff.

At 25 yards. 4.5” high
At 50 yards 10” high
At 100 yards 10-11” high depending on how I count a high round in the 5 shot group.

At 50 a 130 MC rem load was 5” high

The wadcutter loads I didn’t save as they were well above the 14” tall target paper at 50” I am trying to recall the other loads, I am not sure where I put or if I saved those targets.

I did get the gun back from Cimarron. There was zero note of their findings or work done. All I have is a test target of what appears to be three three shot groups on the same paper, no distance or load mentioned.

One 1” group in the x, one 3/4” group on the left 9 ring numeral, and an inch+ group on the right 9 ring numeral.

Based on the group size I theorize they shot the gun at ten yards. Just a guess though.

I will run to the range today if the rain holds off and check. I am pretty sure my front sight is the same height, so that didn’t appear changed out.

I in the mean time cast some Lee 358-125s that weigh about 130 before size and lube. I should load up a light batch and test those too.

By the way the Lee mold is my first of theirs. What a nice casting mold. I have used Lyman, Ideal, RCBS, MP, Accurate and NOE molds and found that the Lee mold really does a fine job, drops at .3595 to .360.

[Lance Boyle]

Well I got to the range to test fire the Cimarron after they sent it back. It’s not better, it’s worse!

Since all I got was a test target with no description of work performed and no data of what ammo, distance the firing was conducted at I can only speculate. Three three shot groups. If I had to guess they shot the groups at ten yards based on the group size.

My trip today now had bullet striking to the right clear off the paper now. Further examination now my front sight leans way to the left. Lining up the hammer and the (centered) rear sight you can see the front sight post heeled way over. Further examination I though the mag tube was now twisted to the side. I rubber banded steel cleaning rods to the rifle, one alongside the left receiver face and another vertically across the left side of the barrel and mag tube. They aren’t parallel. Just to be thorough I moved the rod on the barrel and mag tube to the right side,...it still tilts the same way, top of the rod to the left. It’s definitely now twisted since Cimarron had it. Not sure if that was their adjustment or more likely from the negligent packing job. I shipped off the gun in its original box with a lot of bubble wrap between their box and the outer box as Davidson’s shipped it to my dealer. When Cimarron returned it they took the Cimarron gun box that only had a little cardboard blocking to hold the gun and put a second cardboard box around, tight like a second skin of cardboard, no bubble wrap or any padding whatsoever. When I got their return shipment I looked the gun over expecting damage from that craptastic pack job. No scratches, no broken wood but the interior cardboard blocking in the box was shredded from the gun moving around. I guess that fragile sticker didn’t compensate for the lack of packing.

I am no expert on this style of rifle on twisting the mag tube back around. My FFL said Davidson’s has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. I may exercise it and get a Marlin or a Winchester if I can get my hands on one.

I am about tired of pushing a Cimarron rope up a hill. Send gun that is shooting way too high and get back a gun that shoots way too high and now way too right.

I have no luck at all here.

[HWooldridge]

Call Cimarron and give them a piece of your mind. Make sure they understand the problem, get the name of whoever you talk to, and make them cover the freight. The alternative for them is a bunch of bad reviews and potential loss of reputation.

[Lance Boyle]

Call Cimarron and give them a piece of your mind. Make sure they understand the problem, get the name of whoever you talk to, and make them cover the freight. The alternative for them is a bunch of bad reviews and potential loss of reputation.

They had a form to fill out to describe the issue, I was pretty detailed on top of the emails with their head sales guy. My FFL says the distributer will take the gun back as part of their 100% satisfaction guarantee, exchange it for the same gun or give a credit toward another gun.

I was hoping that Cimarron would have called before shipping it back. If it wouldn’t zero I would have been content with having them swap the front band for a plain one and mill a dovetail for a front sight and put a marbles type of the correct height on. Nope, I got the the bullets go out the other end test. At ten yards it probably did shoot close to the sights but only SASS guys shoot that close.

I was thinking if they did nothing, I just might silver solder a piece of brass to the top of the front sight. Now the thing is twisted I am not keen. I am wondering if the barrel band screw is bent to do that. Those are supposed to be installed incredibly tight from the factory, putting a bend in it ain’t going to help in disassembly none.

[Baltimoreed]

Sorry to hear about your 1873 rifle. They are pretty neat. I bought a used Uberti Cimarron 30 inch 45 colt 1873 that had a bad barrel. Sent it to them and it took almost a year before another barrel arrived from Italy and I got the gun back. Nothing else was weird. I’ve since had it rebarreled with a 20 inch barrel and rechambered to 45acp. Happy with it now. Uberti toggle link rifles are famous for having crazy heavy springs and crazy soft screws. Ive put aftermarket springs and screws in my 3. Makes a difference but I shoot cas. Hope they can get it sorted out for you.

[HWooldridge]

They had a form to fill out to describe the issue, I was pretty detailed on top of the emails with their head sales guy. My FFL says the distributer will take the gun back as part of their 100% satisfaction guarantee, exchange it for the same gun or give a credit toward another gun.

I was hoping that Cimarron would have called before shipping it back. If it wouldn’t zero I would have been content with having them swap the front band for a plain one and mill a dovetail for a front sight and put a marbles type of the correct height on. Nope, I got the the bullets go out the other end test. At ten yards it probably did shoot close to the sights but only SASS guys shoot that close.

I was thinking if they did nothing, I just might silver solder a piece of brass to the top of the front sight. Now the thing is twisted I am not keen. I am wondering if the barrel band screw is bent to do that. Those are supposed to be installed incredibly tight from the factory, putting a bend in it ain’t going to help in disassembly none.

Nothing beats picking up the phone and calling, unless you can do it face to face. Just saying…