not sizing before seating cast boolits

[wilecoyote]

...your choice_

[castmiester]

mild but full full sizing

Full full sizing..... how much more can you get than FL sizing ? I never had an issue chambering, ever , using a RCBS FL die. What's up with Lee ?

[wilecoyote]

if you need a mild but full full sizing, a LFCcarbide die can help you, thank to the lower carbide insert, once you've removed his upper crimp bushing_
if the cylinder chambers allow it, the carbide insert can mildly full size an empty brass= therefore less work hardening the case = in a less restrictive way than any other true sizer die_
in my trials this is not enough to ensure everytime a proper neck tension, anyway, because not everytime the thickness or the elasticity of the brass of the necks are the same_
therefore I've found advisable the task of at least 1/3 sizing with a real (RCBS,Lee,Redding,whatever) sizing die_
_

[wilecoyote]

Lee collet crimp die ?

the Collet Style Crimp Die worked ok for me with .429 jacketed,
but has driven me crazy on .444marlin + oversize casts.
when I asked for help to the Boys-in-the-know, they got me out of trouble with dedication and xtreme patience _
Here I have attempted to return what was passed on to me, or at least I tried, assuming and not granting that I understood what they told me_

[castmiester]

there is no reason to size the body of the case, again. after FL sizing unless you have a bad die, and that is quite possible.

Oversized casts ??? 444 ok.... so if you are having to size that portion of the case, because of a bulge, then you are sizing down that oversized cast, which defeat the purpose of sizing to the groove diameter of your barrel or more. So far I gather, groove diameter... .001 to .002 over the groove diameter but chambering can only support so much over cast.

I can't keep up with the gibberish with the Lee die.

[wilecoyote]

#21

[243winxb]

Not sizing out of round/oval bullets, with a .002" difference? Results in poor accuracy.

The difference in soft to hard alloy can have a difference in diameter of .0015"

Sizing improves accuracy, if you can shoot the difference?

[44magLeo]

On the Lee carbide crimp die, the carbide sizing ring is larger than what the carbide sizing die has. It's been awhile since I measure but I thin it was .0015 larger. It is there so that any bulges caused by bullets or over crimping get smoothed out enough to be sure that loaded rounds fits in most any chamber.
On my Marlin 1894 like most Marlins the throat is cut a bit on the generous side. This can make loading cast bullets a bit of a challenge. On my Marlin the throat is a bit over .432. I have loaded as cast out of my Lyman 429421 for a long time and get great accuracy. The boolits come out of the mold at .432. Not enough out of round to measure. Cast with straight coww's they weigh 262 grs.
I have used several sets of dies to load for this rifle. Steel dies, carbide dies and my Lyman 310 set up. The Lyman always shot just a bit better than the others, but standard dies in a regular press was faster.
I now use the Lee Carbide Die set with the Collet Crimp die. I didn't try modding the crimp die that came in the set, just replaced it with the collet crimp die.
The reason the Lyman 310 set had the edge in accuracy was the 310 dies only neck size the case and I can adjust how far down the case I size. I only size the case down to the depth the boolit seats.
The same loads that worked in the Marlin shot just fine in the revolvers I had. A Ruger SBH 7.5 barrel. and a Ruger Redhawk 5.5 barrel.
All three I liked to set up glass beverage bottles so the neck pointed at me and shoot down the neck to break out the bottom. Was fairly easy out to 25 yards or so. Might be able to do it again now that I have gotten cataracts remove from both eyes.

[wilecoyote]

On the Lee carbide crimp die, the carbide sizing ring is larger than what the carbide sizing die has. It's been awhile since I measure but I thin it was .0015 larger. ...

this is the reason why, once the crimper was removed, it became useful for me to resizing unloaded cases, avoiding the excessively squeezing, as inflicted for example with a proper Redding full sizing die.
However, it was still necessary to verify that the upper part maintained the necessary tension, which is not always achievable in this way, especially in the case of old/heavily used brass_

[gloob]

You should be looking at the different sized expanders for your 44cal's.

With only 1/1000th's neck tension you'll be playing with fire.

Most mfg's use +/- 4/1000th's neck tension for cast bullets. A link to the N. E. O. website, for a .431" bullet they make a .427" expander plug.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...27-p-exp-plug/

Most of my bullet casting is done with a soft 8/9bhn alloy. I've made several different custom expanders for oversized bullets. I've never gone under .0025" expander (.431" bullet/ .4285" expander) or bad things happened. And even at that the low neck tension wasn't worth the shotgun patterns I was rewarded with on the targets.

I use 3/1000th's neck tension on all of the custom expanders I make. Makes a huge difference in consistency/accuracy.

Clicked the link, and it's just a link to an expander plug that happens to be 431x427. Does NOE specifically recommend this plug for 431 bullets? I don't see this suggestion, anywhere. The "431" is not the recommended bullet size. It's the size of the flare step.

NOE also makes a 434x430 plug and every size between.

Lyman suggests that the plug be 2 thous smaller than the bullet. And even this is smaller than necessary, IMO. "2 thou neck tension" rule that we have had for decades was derived from case measurements, not from an expander plug. If the OD of the case increases by at least 1.5-2 thousandths after you put the bullet in there, then you are guaranteed to have maximum neck tension. If it increases more than that, you don't have more neck tension.

You will retain maximum neck tension with a plug that is equal in size to the bullet. When you withdraw the expander, the case will shrink by exactly 1.5-2 thous (provided it was sized small enough to start with). So when you seat your bullet in the case, the OD of the case with increase by 1.5-2 thous. Just as much as guarantees max neck tension. Just don't go larger than that. Smaller shouldn't do anything but decrease your accuracy, but YMMV.

Now if you neck size with a mandrel, your mandrel should be about 4 thous smaller than your bullets. After the collet opens back and the case comes out, the case will grow by 1.5-2 thous larger. Now, after seating the bullet, your case OD will increase by 2-2.5 thous. Enough to ensure maximum neck tension.

[castmiester]

.002 is more than enough along with a good crimp