Extra Low Cost options for volume shooting

[Tracy]

Sounds like a great project! Good idea, using 9mm brass. I've picked up 9mm brass until I got tired of it. A round ball for 9mm only weighs about 70 grains, so that's pretty cheap shooting even if I didn't have my own backyard range and the ability to mine the backstop.

[Walkingwolf]

You almost made me spit out my morning coffee. I get admonished for "pumping up air guns" for cheap shooting, and you shoot plastic beads. You WIN!!!!

Biodegradable beads. Hey it is safe, and cheap, I was training everyday, as well as my wife. Usually about a thousand rounds a day, when I was more active, on top of that no ear protection needed. I still keep on top of my skills with firearms, but the airsoft is just so much fun. But hey, I also shoot slingshots, blow guns, as well as archery. I use my air guns also but not as much, except for the red ryder, I love that BB gun.

[dverna]

Biodegradable beads. Hey it is safe, and cheap, I was training everyday, as well as my wife. Usually about a thousand rounds a day, when I was more active, on top of that no ear protection needed. I still keep on top of my skills with firearms, but the airsoft is just so much fun. But hey, I also shoot slingshots, blow guns, as well as archery. I use my air guns also but not as much, except for the red ryder, I love that BB gun.

You are starting to piss me off!!! I decided long ago NO MORE TOYS. But guess what? I have spent a few hours looking at high end airsoft guns since reading your post this morning.

Joined the Airsoft forum looking to tap their knowledge. I think the grandson will have a blast with one. Keeping a ping pong ball bouncing with a semi-auto might be fun for this old man too!! Lots of ways to have fun trigger time on a budget if we think outside the box.

[Walkingwolf]

You are starting to piss me off!!! I decided long ago NO MORE TOYS. But guess what? I have spent a few hours looking at high end airsoft guns since reading your post this morning.

Joined the Airsoft forum looking to tap their knowledge. I think the grandson will have a blast with one. Keeping a ping pong ball bouncing with a semi-auto might be fun for this old man too!! Lots of ways to have fun trigger time on a budget if we think outside the box.

Like!

[dtknowles]

Toys, toys, I had a fully automatic bb gun that was a replica of a 1898 Mauser pistol. It used CO2 and had a 10 round magazine that it would empty in less than 5 seconds.

https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/...pistol-review/

Tim

[P Flados]

I made good progress today.

I took the case forming die I made and converted it into a combination case forming and bullet seating die. The neck on the initial formed cases is a little big on purpose. After initial forming I anneal the neck and then use a 32 S&W sizer die to do a final size of the neck. I use my 32 ACPR expander die to expand an flare the neck. Routine reloads should just require neck sizing, expand/flare the brass and then assemble.

Some ammo is loaded. Reloaded primers were assembled and installed in another 100 newly formed and processed cases. These will be ready to load on Wednesday (the EPH-20 process uses water activation of the compound and then there is a drying period). Another hundred or so cases are ready to prime.

I turned down the 30-06 chunk and fitted it to the shroud. I then installed the rest of the stuff to make it functional. The gun is far enough along for the initial test firing sessions with a scope.

On the plus side, these short little buggers load into the chamber and extract from the chamber a good bit easier than any other rimless I have used in a TC.

I probably will not get to shoot until Wednesday. I have Jury duty and the trial should wrap up by Tuesday (I hope)

Once the gun has proven to work adequately, I will need to drill and tap the shroud to mount a front sight. Currently I left the barrel an inch longer than the shroud. I may thread the end of it and install a nut (fashioned to look like a thread protector). If not I will probably just trim it down flush with the shroud. Leaving it long initially is also to allow me to trim some off the breech end if I need to "fix" something with the chamber.

And to repeat myself, they are ugly as sin.



And here is some stuff for background. My 32 ACPR and a couple of pics of my 55 gr bullets & mold.

[jdgabbard]

That’s pretty neat. Looking forward to hearing how it shoots, along with general documentation on the cartridge dimensions and load data.

[gloob]

Now I want a Contender to do stupid things like this!

I'm curious why so short? I would have imagined half the neck and a longer OAL.

[dverna]

I did not imagine the cartridge would look like that. I may have missed it but are you using something like BLL to lube the bullets?

[P Flados]

This round was set up specifically to fire 55 gr BLL tumble lube bullet with a velocity of around 800 fps +/- 100 fps as efficiently as practical. For this function, smaller case capacity is better. If I wanted to put more effort into the cases, trimming them down an 1/8" and pushing the shoulder down another 1/16" would help with efficiency, but trimming 1/8" from hundreds of cases is a PITA.

The chamber was cut by using the 300 BO D-reamer I made a while back along with single point boring to open up the body and neck. I used the cross slide to cut the angle on the shoulder. The reamer was used mostly to get a throat and leade. I am not sure I am happy with the throat/leade, but I want to shoot it first before messing with it. The body ID feels about right when I insert a loaded round and the neck ID may be on the big side of what would work. I do not want to do case neck turning, I want to use whatever head stamp 9mm I pick up and I may end up using 0.314" bullets for this gun (I use this diameter for my 327). I can take a casting of the chamber if I feel a need.

[gloob]

Especially if you plan to use mixed headstamps in 9mm and no turning, that long neck is going to make for a roomy chamber with the thinner cases. I suppose you will have to get the freebore and leade just right to prevent a plume of lube smoke shooting out before the bullet with the thinner cases.

The internal volume of your cases is also going to vary quite intensely, using mixed headstamps.


You can still go longer, since you bored out the chamber. The shorter the neck, the less variation you will have in extreme case neck thickness AND relative difference in internal volume. And you will maybe increase charge by only maybe 0.2 grains.
The 158 grain loads currently sitting in my 357 are going a bit faster than this, and the charge is still only ~2.7 grains fast powder in that huge case.

[Sandro_ventania]

I made good progress today.

I took the case forming die I made and converted it into a combination case forming and bullet seating die. The neck on the initial formed cases is a little big on purpose. After initial forming I anneal the neck and then use a 32 S&W sizer die to do a final size of the neck. I use my 32 ACPR expander die to expand an flare the neck. Routine reloads should just require neck sizing, expand/flare the brass and then assemble.

Some ammo is loaded. Reloaded primers were assembled and installed in another 100 newly formed and processed cases. These will be ready to load on Wednesday (the EPH-20 process uses water activation of the compound and then there is a drying period). Another hundred or so cases are ready to prime.

I turned down the 30-06 chunk and fitted it to the shroud. I then installed the rest of the stuff to make it functional. The gun is far enough along for the initial test firing sessions with a scope.

On the plus side, these short little buggers load into the chamber and extract from the chamber a good bit easier than any other rimless I have used in a TC.

I probably will not get to shoot until Wednesday. I have Jury duty and the trial should wrap up by Tuesday (I hope)

Once the gun has proven to work adequately, I will need to drill and tap the shroud to mount a front sight. Currently I left the barrel an inch longer than the shroud. I may thread the end of it and install a nut (fashioned to look like a thread protector). If not I will probably just trim it down flush with the shroud. Leaving it long initially is also to allow me to trim some off the breech end if I need to "fix" something with the chamber.

And to repeat myself, they are ugly as sin.



And here is some stuff for background. My 32 ACPR and a couple of pics of my 55 gr bullets & mold.

Just a little shorter neck would make him more likeable. Or at least make it more conical. Make it look like the .22 Hornet.

[lar45]

They are indeed ugly little suckers, but they kind of grow on you the more you look at them.
I like it!

[j4570]

I agree with one of the previous posters, why not 30 Luger? Dies easy to find. And it should form nicely with square shoulders.

[ulav8r]

I would like to try a 32-20 with tp black powder and home made primers per the two threads in the muzzle loader section. It would be a little more conveient than a 32 muzzle loader with the same powder and home made caps.

[P Flados]

I agree with one of the previous posters, why not 30 Luger? Dies easy to find. And it should form nicely with square shoulders.

For the above: And 30 Luger brass can be gathered in large quantities for free at your local range?

In general:

A number of rounds can be made from 223, but what advantage would that have over making brass from the 9mm for this application.

If I had to spend a significant outlay for a custom gun / dies, just buying a gun and lots of brass for an existing cartridge would have made sense. Up front I tried to make it pretty obvious that making dies and making the gun were no big deal for me and no out of pocket cost. I understand that the gun and dies would be a bigger deal for many.

This is not something that I expect others to do, but some may be interested in following along.

If someone asks "what is the lowest cost cartridge to load for" this one or something similar may deserve mention. On just a consumables basis, 32 ACP, 32 S&W short & 25 ACP with cast boolits beat this one. But again there is more than just consumable costs. These types of threads invariable get into discussion over cost of brass, dies etc. Up front I specified that this effort has the qualifier that the parent brass needs to be very easy to gather in good quantities for free and that the conversion be pretty easy.

[P Flados]

Just a little shorter neck would make him more likeable. Or at least make it more conical. Make it look like the .22 Hornet.

I considered "more conical". Basically a taper from just in front of the solid web up to the base of the neck. I compare this more to the 22 Jet shape than the Hornet. I was concerned that the "Jet" option would have been more challenging in terms of getting a chamber and matching forming / reloading dies. I cut the chamber by using dummy ammo and feel to a large degree. This was pretty easy and did not require making any reamers. I can make D Reamers, but often I end up with reamers "close to" what I wanted and not really "just right" on the first try.

[dverna]

I agree that stuff like this “interesting to follow along”. I do not have the skill but appreciate what others can accomplish.

I hope the round works out for your needs. Looking forward to your results.

[dtknowles]

I would like to try a 32-20 with tp black powder and home made primers per the two threads in the muzzle loader section. It would be a little more conveient than a 32 muzzle loader with the same powder and home made caps.

yep, low cost but high volume? Looks to be a lot of manhours. Still a wonderful project.

Tim

[j4570]

I wasn’t suggesting that piles of 30 Luger were at the local range. Rather that you could form 9mm into 30 Luger and use that. I believe it may come up short but my understanding is that your goal was something easy to form and use a 30 caliber bullet. That’s why I suggested the 30 Luger. So it will be short brass. The neck will be really short probably.