Extra Low Cost options for volume shooting

[P Flados]

This is something of a spin off from my Post 56 at https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...cheap-to-shoot.

The objective is for a round that combines very low cost per shot with use of the ultra easy / cheap to get 9mm brass as a starting point.

The overall effort will also consider other "enablers" such as use of readily available and low cost used rifle barrels for things like stub tubes, sleeves or shotgun inserts.

Although many consider primer cost as a basis that reloads can "only be so cheap", I am one of the few that are cranking out reloaded primers to support routine shooting in more than casual quantities. For more info on primer reloading, see:

• https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...st-100-primers
  
• https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Pics-and-Tips

The "new effort" I am working on was discussed in the "cheap to shoot thread" with:

• And now I am actively working on going “the next step”. Although the 32 ACPR works great, it has a downside. I have a good bit of brass but not enough to do more than a couple of months or so of loading at one time. Doing a really big batch in Jan - Feb would be so much better. Increasing my 32 ACPR brass stash will involve either more cost or more effort than I want.
  
• So, even before reading the OP, I had decided I wanted a new option that would use the 9mm as a parent case. I can get all the 9mm brass I want for free as range pickup. I will be doing another Contender stub tube or possibly a liner. I have a 7 TCU Contender barrel that was a carbine cut down to 14”. When cut down, the bore was found to be well off to one side and it was then sold to me cheap. I have 30 cal and 22 cal junk barrels on hand. Either could be used. However, I think the 30 will be easier to form for the brass and I am already set up for the nice 55 gr 0.312” bullet described above. For my needs, the smaller the case capacity the better. This is making me lean toward a neck say 0.3” to 0.4” long. I will be making D reamers and dies out of cheap material I have on hand. I think I will call it the 30 ELC (Extra Low Cost). My out of pocket cost will be zip.

When I was digging around today, I found that my memory had misfired. My junk TC barrel is a 30 Herrett, not a 7 TCU. Darn. I am thinking of boring out the barrel to act as a shroud with a 30 cal barrel inside, but now I will probably need to rob parts from another barrel to get the extractor from a rimless barrel (probably my 10" 222 octagon).

I did fab an initial forming die and made up a handful of 30 ELC prototypes (pics later). Dimensions include:

• Neck ID for chamber will be close to 0.338"
• Neck length looks ok at 0.335"
• Case length as formed was 0.765" (see Note 1 below)
• Case capacity was 11.5 gr of H2O (see Note 2 below)

Note 1: I want this to be easy for converting brass "in bulk". Trimming is a Pita, but the mouths on the formed cases are not as square as desired. Some trimming is probably needed. I would like to shorten the cases, but this make the trimming effort even more of a PITA (this point overlaps with the Note 2 discussion). I am still mulling over my choices for this item.

Note 2: I like the performance of my 32 ACPR (887 fps est velocity for a 55 gr bullet using 1.7 gr of Titegroup). A standard 32 ACP has a case capacity of 9.25 gr of H2O. Shortening the case more than "just enough" to get it square would get closer to the 32 ACPR and probably help with performance, but again it would increase effort. The increase in case capacity only drops the Quickload prediction by 70 fps if I stick with the same charge, so I will probably try minimal trimming, but my thoughts on this may change.

[P Flados]

Note that I have also considered a 22 ELC, a 264 ELC and a 7 ELC. All would be based on junk rifle barrels that I have and 9mm brass as a starting point.

However, the 30 ELC just seems a better place to start for now.

My cost per round of the 30 ELC with a 55 gr bullet made from range scrap will be close to $1.05 per 100. Smaller calibers and shorter cases might enable a lower cost per round, but I am also factoring in effort and ease of use.

[uscra112]

How much is all that labor worth?

[dverna]

I am confused.

In your other post you said volume was 1000 rounds a year...not much.

Are you looking at using 9mm brass necked down to .30 cal?

[brokeasajoke]

I'm just gonna jump out and say straight 9mm. No fiddling, forming, and for most people extra purchases. If casting, cast a low grain bullet.

[dtknowles]

I'm just gonna jump out and say straight 9mm. No fiddling, forming, and for most people extra purchases. If casting, cast a low grain bullet.

Agreed, you don't save much going to a smaller diameter bullet. Just use a light for caliber bullet if you are trying to save on the cost of bullets. The powder charge and primer will be the same a 55gr bullet verse a 100 gr bullet. Yeah, it is twice the lead but with 5 cent primer and penny powder you are taking the difference between 7 cents per round and 8 cents per round. I think I would accept the extra penny a round to avoid odd ball cartridge and case forming. I do understand the fun in being different.

[P Flados]

I am retired and winter is my least busy season. During the winter, there are spells of weather good enough for comfortable garage work.

I get more busy in the summer and like to have enough loaded in "big batches" to minimize the need to reload on a regular basis year round. The way I incorporate primer reloading into regular reloading is part of the issue.

I do have a big stash of 38 Sp brass and shoot these on a regular basis (mostly revolver). Trying to put together a 9mm for the contender would not be a significant advantage over using my 357 barrel and 38 brass.

I really like the way my little 32 ACPR stub tube works. I just do not have the volume of brass that I want. This effort was prompted specifically to get that same level of performance. And the 55 gr really does stretch my lead compared to my lightest 35 cal (95 gr used primarily for 380s). For equivalent velocity, the 32s need about 2/3 the powder charge as a 38 SP.

Part of this is also just the why not use up some of the stuff that has been collected over the years. And again, during the winter I have the time for "projects" like this. Doing projects is something of a hobby in itself. A wildcat for an ultra quiet 22 cal unsuppressed shotgun insert is the other project I am considering. It actually sounds more fun as a project, but I have very little real use for the end product.

For this one, I am having second thoughts on proceeding at the moment.

My 14" bed mini lathe will work, but is not ideal by any means. I have a nice 13" chunk from the skinny end of a 30-06 barrel that I cut a chamber in. However the diameter is not big enough for a stub tube, so a sleeve or similar seems to be called for. I am not eager to jump in and start attempting to bore out the junk 30 Herrett barrel.

Also, the round looks ugly as sin.

[Handloader109]

Low cost shooting. 22lr on sale about 6 to 7 cents a round and no work. Plain 9mm almost no work, 10 cent primer, 2 cent powder, free brass and reclaimed lead. 13 cents a round.

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[scattershot]

Why not just shoot lightly loaded 9mm? A lot cheaper than doing all that gunsmithing, new barrela, etc.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Why not just shoot lightly loaded 9mm? A lot cheaper than doing all that gunsmithing, new barrela, etc.

The man wants a project. Let him have at it. I’m looking forward to the results.

[dverna]

The man wants a project. Let him have at it. I’m looking forward to the results.

I agree. This applies to many aspects of our hobby.

For many folks, it is not about $$, even when they say otherwise.

[elmacgyver0]

The man wants a project. Let him have at it. I’m looking forward to the results.

Exactly!
Sometimes it is the quest.

[Winger Ed.]

Sounds like a fun project.
And like some of my odd projects--- it will help keep you out of those crooked BINGO parlors.

Seems like you'll need to make the dies for it too.

[Bazoo]

Instead of 9mm, I'd use 38 special as the starting point. 30 bobcat is a wildcat that's necked down 357 Magnum. Using a 100 grain bullet, you're not going to save much in the way of lead from a 9mm though. But still, nothing wrong with having a project to keep you busy.

[longbow]

You could use shortened .30 Luger dies couldn't you?

[P Flados]

Ok, I decided to go for it this morning.

Almost an entire day spent at the lathe and the hard part is done.

What was a junk 30 Herrett barrel is now a 9" Contender "shroud". I bored the ID to 0.460" for the full length and then bored out 2" at the rear to 0.600". Next step is to machine the OD of the doner 30-06 barrel chunk to slip in.

[stubshaft]

For rifle shooting I have a 218 Mashburn Bee on a Martini action, a couple of K-Hornets and a 30 Carbine Contender carbine. Lately I've been shooting a lot of 30 Carbine out of my Blackhawk and 32 ACP out of my Walther PP. The biggest expense for all of them is the cost of primers!

[jdgabbard]

You could use shortened .30 Luger dies couldn't you?

Well, probably for flaring, seating, and crimping. Sizing wouldn't work as when you shorten the sizing die it'll have the same taper on it. So you'd probably be better off finding a non-carbide set of dies, shortening the sizing die then reaming it to the new dimensions of the cartridge.

As for the project as a hole, man that is going to be one small cartridge. Once you have enough neck on it for a decent sized bullet you're going to have very little body of the case left. It'll be about as much fun to load as 32acp or 25acp... But, it'll probably be fun to shoot, and that's what matter I suppose. Still sounds like a decent amount of work to put together.

[Walkingwolf]

Well, probably for flaring, seating, and crimping. Sizing wouldn't work as when you shorten the sizing die it'll have the same taper on it. So you'd probably be better off finding a non-carbide set of dies, shortening the sizing die then reaming it to the new dimensions of the cartridge.

As for the project as a hole, man that is going to be one small cartridge. Once you have enough neck on it for a decent sized bullet you're going to have very little body of the case left. It'll be about as much fun to load as 32acp or 25acp... But, it'll probably be fun to shoot, and that's what matter I suppose. Still sounds like a decent amount of work to put together.

I'm lazy, for shooting tin cans I use airsoft guns. I can shoot thousands of rounds for a few dollars. I do still shoot firearms, just not as much. A few years ago I got myself another red ryder, cheap, and fun.

[dverna]

I'm lazy, for shooting tin cans I use airsoft guns. I can shoot thousands of rounds for a few dollars. I do still shoot firearms, just not as much. A few years ago I got myself another red ryder, cheap, and fun.

You almost made me spit out my morning coffee. I get admonished for "pumping up air guns" for cheap shooting, and you shoot plastic beads. You WIN!!!!