My opinions on AirGuns and other ramblings

[dverna]

I have been admonished for "pumping up air guns". I am guilty as charged. Facts and common sense leave me no choice.

Within reasonable constraints, there is no cheaper way to achieve excellent accuracy than with a quality air gun. That will upset those who embrace cast bullets as the path to inexpensive trigger time, but it is reality.

The vast majority of my plinking is done at 50 yards or less. I suspect that holds for most folks. My PCP Huntsman shoots under .75" at that range at a total shooting cost of $30/k (including pellets, amortization of the tank over 15 years, and air fills at a scuba shop). That is based on 5000 rounds a year. Plan on investing $1700 (gun $1100 and tank $600) to get that level of accuracy. If 1" groups, or a bit more, are good enough, the DAR does that for under $400 for the gun. There are others just as good...maybe better? My guns are three years old and things change quickly wrt air guns. I have not kept up as I am satisfied with what I have.

I still shoot cast bullets in 9mm's and .38/.357's (pistols and carbines) but not as many. During the first .22 LR crisis, I was shooting over 15k cast bulleted 9mm's and .38 Spl's per year for less than the cost of .22's. Those days are gone for the foreseeable future. With what I now know, I will never go back to doing most of my plinking with cast bullets. I am a shooter. I have no great love for casting, sizing/lubing, policing/sorting/cleaning cases, or reloading unless I am saving money.

With today's component costs, it seemed to require a lot of mental gymnastics to justify casting and reloading to save money to plink. Then I had an epiphany. It may not be about "cheap shooting" for everyone....it could be about cheap reloading/casting. Some people shoot to reload and cast!!! Folks wired that way (and BTW that is not "wrong", just different) will despise air guns. They enjoy the process as much or more than shooting. If that is you, air guns are going to be disappointing and frustrating. Disappointing because you will miss the "fun" of the process...finding alloy, modifying it, taking an ingot and making bullets, lubing/sizing, cleaning grungy cases to get shinny brass, prepping brass, load development and reloading. Frustrating because you will be hard pressed to beat the accuracy of an air gun at 50 yards regardless of how much care you take with cast loads. I believe there are a handful of folks on this site who could do it, but anyone can buy a PCP that is capable of 3/4" (or better) groups at 50 yards...if they can shoot. Which brings up another rabbit hole...some folks are not capable. I find myself in that less than capable group.

I have the same gun as NSB and he shoots 1/4" smaller groups. I can do as well or better than him at times, but I am not consistent. Air guns groups are more affected by wind and that takes a different skill set than trigger/breath control, consistent stock weld, and follow through. It is good skill and you do not need to shoot at 300+ yards with a centerfire to practice it. Air guns do it cheaply.

BTW, my current "leaning next to the door" rifle for dealing with four legged varmints (I live rurally) is a 10/22. It is not as accurate as the PCP's but it has more power, range and is less affected by wind. I love PCP's for what they do, but they do not do everything well.

I believe in using the right tool for the job. Air guns rock for cheap trigger time; .22 LR is better for small game; lead bullets in the pistol caliber rounds work well for practicing; pistol rounds for "serious" work (in my calibers) call for high end jacketed bullets; the modern CF rifle works best with jacketed bullets. KISS

I used to shoot over 15k cast bullets a year. That has changed. I may shoot 3000 cast bullets this year. Cast bullets will always be part of my "habit" when they make sense.

[Recycled bullet]

Dverna you hit the nail on the head with this statement "Some people shoot to reload and cast!!!"

I've been looking at the Benjamin bulldog 357 because I want to cast for an air rifle.

[hoodat]

I've been shooting mine into an improvised bullet trap in the back yard. Thing I don't like is the trigger is soooo different than any of my conventional rifles, that I wonder if my practice will carry over to them. My current air rifle is a Crossman Shockwave, nitro piston .22. It's doing good to keep an inch at 25 yards with a rest. I shoot about 4" standing now, and hope to improve.. jd

[FLINTNFIRE]

I agree as the right tool for each job is usually different , I find that the pcp rifles ( and I am up to 7 from 22 to 30 ) do indeed fit in with my needs , cast for some calibers , jacketed for others , 22lr for kids and some shooting , black powder cartridge and muzzle loaders all fit in with what I enjoy .

I will admit the 25 caliber is my favorite in the pcp .

[frkelly74]

I have an old spring powered Daisy that I bought when I was in High School. It says Made In Scotland on it and is 22 cal with a break open action. I have used it for plinking and have used a tracing of its stock to make a stock or two for shotguns that came to me without wood. The grand kids have also enjoyed this gun on occasion. I remember scrounging around right after " the election" for pellets for it and did find some at the Dunhams store here. This is not a high tech precision arm but it is still fun and cheap, my two favorite descriptives.

[elmacgyver0]

I would never accuse Don "of pumping up air guns" from what I understands, he always uses a tank.

[marlinman93]

I own a few airguns. Couple I've had since I was young, and one fairly new Gamo Whisper I bought maybe 4-5 years ago?
I use my airgun to shoot when I don't feel like driving the 16 miles to the range, or just want some trigger time in the backyard. I really like it, and it's cheap fun.
I did have a very expensive Anschutz offhand rifle that used a scuba tank to fill it. I loved how accurate it was, but didn't shoot it enough to justify the money I had tied up in it.

[chutesnreloads]

Agree with Don all all points but one. Those who just enjoy the tinkering can still do so with air guns. Read some of Racing's threads. WOW
It isn't casting and reloading but there's plenty to tinker with on air guns. Get a PCP that'll shoot slugs and you can get your casting
fix in with those too. Don't forget the big bore air rifles

[ohen cepel]

I'll tell anyone who will listen to me that an airgun is an excellent way to get more trigger time in. Where I am now, most have to pay for an indoor range to shoot firearms which adds to the cost. Plus, many of them make you buy their ammo to shoot on their range which is stupid $$$$. Now, you do need a place to shoot your airgun but that isn't hard to find.

[birdshot]

I shoot my 20 year old Gamo 220 nearly every evening, usually off hand at 10 steps. A 220 is the break barrel style and mine is .177. The trigger is terrible and I have been contemplating a "charliedatuna" trigger, but am unsure how changing the blade would help. Any satisfied Charliedatuna customers?

[dverna]

I would never accuse Don "of pumping up air guns" from what I understands, he always uses a tank.

You are so right. This fat old man is not going to be shooting much if I have to pump them up. Lol.

[NSB]

Don, that is one of the best write-ups I’ve read on airguns. I agree with everything you said about them, and I’m pretty much in the same boat when it comes to “all around” shooting anymore. My days of 35k of pistol shooting are over, my rifle shooting is all about hunting, not mass volume shooting, and there’s a place for hunting with airguns, but overall the .22lr will get the job done better. But, there’s nothing like sitting in a blind in a good squirrel grove and shooting a bunch of gray squirrels with a PCP on a late season morning or afternoon. The airgun’s a great tool for hunting “small” small game. Anyone who wants to see the fun in hunting with an air gun needs to visit Robin Foxer’s videos. He makes a great case for using an air rifle to hunt and eliminate pests.

[dverna]

Don, that is one of the best write-ups I’ve read on airguns. I agree with everything you said about them, and I’m pretty much in the same boat when it comes to “all around” shooting anymore. My days of 35k of pistol shooting are over, my rifle shooting is all about hunting, not mass volume shooting, and there’s a place for hunting with airguns, but overall the .22lr will get the job done better. But, there’s nothing like sitting in a blind in a good squirrel grove and shooting a bunch of gray squirrels with a PCP on a late season morning or afternoon. The airgun’s a great tool for hunting “small” small game. Anyone who wants to see the fun in hunting with an air gun needs to visit Robin Foxer’s videos. He makes a great case for using an air rifle to hunt and eliminate pests.

I owe you a lot. You helped in my early struggles with PCPs and sent me that pellet sampler and cleaning pull through whip.

You are wonderful testament to the kind of people we have on this site.


I will share what happened this morning with all of you. I was reluctant to start this thread. I felt some folks thought my love for air guns was “over the top”. I talked to my fiancé about it. She said, “Does it make any difference if the hole in the paper is from a bullet or a pellet? You shoot for hours off the back porch and I don’t have to listen to a bunch of noise. What’s not to like?” BTW, she is not hard on the eyes and not too shabby with a pistol or rifle. Got to love a woman like that. I suspect part of the reason she likes air guns because we to drive to Traverse City to get the tank filled. That means a nice meal and shopping “in the big city”. Women can be sneaky…lol.

I have decided not to mention air guns as much on the other sub forums to maintain harmony. Once the weather improves, I have some interesting testing planned. My air tank is full and I can't wait for spring. Stay tuned.

[DaleT]

I have a Gamo Urban and use a hand pump (ugh) but I'm not ready to spend $3-500 for a compressor.
Currently it has an air leak in one of the seals (not the one at the fill port, I've changed that) so it hasn't been used in a little while, it got put on the back burner
with the approval of my 22 sparrow.

[35 Rem]

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

[GhostHawk]

Well said Don.

I also happened to run across that other thread where a mod "Admonished" you. I do not believe he was really upset with you. I think he was mostly jerking your chain.

It is a cast bullets site, but some airgunners cast their pellets. And some cast for holy black front stuffers, others for pistols, rifles, everything under the sun.
There is a lot of diversity here, which is a good thing.

On a side note I guess I am the exception to what you talked about. I enjoyed casting, lubing, sizing, reloading. But it was also jobs that had to be done before I could shoot again. I also enjoy airguns. I have yet to step into PCP's, once through that door you can not come back. I like the single shot pump up guns the best. But I also have a pair of Hatsan .22 that I dearly love. As I age and with covid I am shooting much less at the range. It is almost Feb and I can not remember the last time I cast bullets. Was a while back. While I enjoy it, it also takes time away from other things I love.

Hang in there Don, your doing great.

[dverna]

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

Good post.

First, I had the same RWS and did not like shooting it. I put less than 1000 pellets through it. It was "work" to shoot 100 rounds and using a springer off a bench is awkward. PCPs changed that.

Second, you represent the other side (the majority?) of people who enjoy casting and reloading. It is a about the journey as much as the destination. Putting holes in paper or ringing steel is boring for a lot of folks.

As an example, when we travel, we like road trips. If we are going to Florida, we can't wait to get past Ohio and into the more southern states where we enjoy side trips to "tourist traps" and finding good restaurants, especially good southern barbeque with real sweet ice tea!!! Getting to Florida is as much fun as being there.

I am in the minority. If I never cast another bullet, or reloaded another round, I would not miss it. I have been down the road of chasing sub MOA groups in hunting rifles (jacketed of course) and one day realized it had no practical justification for my needs...it was about bragging rights with my buddies. I tried getting sub 2 MOA with cast in my .308 and gave up. Even if I got it to work, I was not going to invest that much effort to put holes in paper in 200 yards. I would never hunt with cast and I was buying .224 bullets for $420/6000 so what was the point?

The only reason I cast bullets is to save money. That adds up when shooting 15k rounds a year, not so much for a hunting rifle that sees less than a box of ammunition a year. I have never had to feed a "weird" caliber but that is a niche that makes casting and reloading necessary.

There is no right or wrong answer that works for everyone, and shooting is a BIG TENT.

I still shoot the powder burners and understand where you are coming from.

[gloob]

I imagine repeating PCP rifles are fun in the same way a semiauto 22LR rifle is fun (at first). But I don't have a semiauto 22LR rifle, anymore. I haven't even shot 22LR but maybe twice in the last 5 years.

I take a few shots with my multipump and springers pretty often. To stay in form and for fun, but not really in extended shooting sessions. The things I ever shoot with them are so small and fast I'm only going to get one shot and I'm not even going to see it from 70 yards... because I don't currently care to shoot any birds sitting on a branch or wire. My pests are small rodents.

Tanks, compressors, o-rings, magazines... it's a lot just to get off that one shot. I don't have any CO2 airguns, either. Those are fun like repeating 22LR, at first. But not much use to me once the novelty wears off.

[NSB]

It truly is “different strokes for different folks”. Sometimes you just run out of fun doing one thing to excess. I spent a lifetime going through different shooting disciplines trying to master them. I used to shoot 20k rounds of shotgun a year for quite a few years getting into Master Class sporting clays. What did I get for it? Nothing really. I shot three gun matches for Hodgdon for several years and burned through 30k of handgun and 35k of rimfire every year. Same results in the end. After you do it all, it’s never the same when you try it again. It’s just not much fun anymore. Getting into PCP airguns is/was something new again that hasn’t run its course….yet. Is it expensive to buy a good gun, gas bottle, scope, etc? You bet. But compared to everything else I “invested” my money it, it’s no worse. What makes this site as good as it is, is the diversity of the people on here. If you want to spend a lot of time casting I say go for it. To me it’s like me tying my own trout flies. I spend hours doing it and in the end I could have just bought them and caught the same amount of trout (to be honest, I’ve actually bought some the last couple of years). What ever you want to do, enjoy it. You only go around once. I respect everyone’s choice.

[elmacgyver0]

I have always had BB guns and pellet guns and time to time play around with them.
I bought a Gamo Whisper .177 springer, never used it much. My dad's cousin gave me a little Hy-Skor .177 springer Mod 806 to see if I could fix it.
It was in pretty sad shape, pellet would fly maybe 20 feet when fired.
I gave it a good cleaning, repaired the stock and refinished and lubricated it.
It probably works as good as new now. I took it back to him and said here you go, my compliments, he said, "keep it it's yours".
I don't shoot it much, but it is special to me because of who gave it to me.
My dad's cousin was an old WWII vet. Over the years he saved me all the blank brass from VFW events he participated in, not to mention a sling he gave me marked 1944 for my M1 Garand, he seemed tickled pink that I had an M1 Garand, he carried one all over Europe during WWII and had a great respect for the weapon.
He never spoke much of the war, and I did not pry, he is gone now and I do miss him.
Sorry for the rant.
Back to the subject, I bought a Hatsan .25 cal springer, very powerful for anything I care to shoot with it but would not play nice with my ATN 4K night sight.
I bought a Hatsan .25 cal PCP bullpup, the Flashpup in .25 caliber, I was hooked, and the night sight was awesome on it.
Since then, I bought two more cheap PCPs, they do what I want, so I don't see spending anymore, for now.