My opinions on AirGuns and other ramblings

[dtknowles]

If it flies, goes bang best does both I like it. I do a lot of things just to know that I can. Brew beer, make wine, bake bread, smoke meat, grow vegetables, make BP, make lube, cast bullets, repair guns, cast brass, zinc and aluminum. I love the Crossman CO2 pellet guns. I wanted to prove I could shoot sub-MOA groups with cast bullets, spent a bunch of money and effort but once I did, I moved on to other things. I built a 30 Cal. CO2 Pellet gun using a Paint Ball gun as the basis. It is rusting right now. It worked, cool. Done, next thing. I bought a 9mm PCP repeater, cool, sort of. I got a compressor because the pumping was a pain. I rarely shoot it even with the compressor. I don't hunt so it does not really have a use but except maybe in an emergency or a time when ammo is illegal. I enjoy shooting when I have a goal or to teach or entertain someone else. I don't really enjoy casting or reloading and I can afford to buy all the ammo I would want to shoot. I mostly reload to be prepared for whatever or to feed guns that you can't buy ammo for, or for things like shoot sub-MOA groups with cast or sub-0.25 MOA with jacketed bullets. I bought a 6mm PPC benchrest rifle because I wanted to know if the reason I was not shooting many sub-MOA groups was my skills, my ammo or my guns. Turns out it was mostly the guns but I did learn a few things that help me shoot my other guns better.

I think air rifles, PCP, CO2, pumps, springers etc. have their place and they are the best for some things.

One of the most fun guns I shoot is also the cheapest. It is a Marksman springer pistol that will shoot small darts. Cool indoor target practice and just plain fun with friends. I wore the first one out and now have a second one. I don't know why everyone does not have one of these, they are less than or were less than $20.

https://www.bradfordsauction.com/auc...tol_32E4DB9BC7



Tim

[Racing]

Well Don, i about couldn´t agree more.
Although hunting is part of it to me so is competing, and no.. i do not compete using air guns.



A few of the disciplines takes that there. A full blown Sauer competition rifle, and yes.. it IS that good. It´s a competition Sauer rifle, you expect that and yes.. it holds true. You do the math, go figure. In my world worth every dime.

The whole PCP thing started out me going after rodents but as i run a machine shop, sorts of, one thing led to another and here we are.

I too shoot 22lr..and then again compete doing so as well.



So that there is MY Anschütz 1416. Nope, they don´t make KRG stock for ´em.. i run a machine shop remember? Accurate? Yeah well, using SK Long range i get serious sub MOA at 100 so.. yes. It´s an Anschütz, what can i say?

To me though, i´m an old hotroder at heart why the REAL neat thing to me is finding what´s bang for the buck. Just as with old souped up cars, so called sleepers in my book are just to die for.
Here n there with the PCP´s.. you find those, and i´d say i just did.



Just today i tried them there out, the 42 grain H&N hollow points "massive expansion".
Did so in..



..that there. There´s a post on it, the Reximex Meta Premium. Thing is a laser tossing them 42´s the north side of 1000fps and see.. that brings that it actually WILL hand any 22lr a run for the money 7 days a week. Yeeeeez.. as a "hunter 22lr" too...
In turn the development as far as pills n PCP for the moment.. It´s nothing short of insane. This then at HALF the hang tag of an FX Impact M3.
Don´t get me wrong.
Love my M3 (just as much as that by me hand built Anschütz)...
Be that as it may, solution to all ills then?
Of course not.
What i´m saying is that what reels me in is the ability to TUNE a PCP rifle to suit SO many different shooting situations by mere change of pills and turning a few screws/adjusters.
Powder burners simply do not do that, cater to it.

Seeing what FX just brought out (the DRS and DRS Pro) coupled with what Reximex has just put into market.. i say very interesting times are ahead. the DRS Pro to compete directly with the PRS guns for trophys..
The Rex offering to show that really WELL built and designed PCP´s are becoming more n more affordable.

It was bound to happen i guess? Seeing how many a high end manufacturer has been going at it for years it was BOUND to happen that the "mid range folk" caught up and simply made a very similar mouse trap at HALF the cost to the customer.
That´s a win if you ask me.

Don´t get me wrong. I´ll keep at it souping up performance, no matter what you put into that phrase, upcoming too. Of course i will, but then and again you run into something that almost feels to good to be true and wanna share the experience.
Well, this one is one of those and by that is sorts of a mile stone.

[dtknowles]

.... what reels me in is the ability to TUNE a PCP rifle to suit SO many different shooting situations by mere change of pills and turning a few screws/adjusters.
Powder burners simply do not do that, cater to it....

Are you kidding me. Nothing is more catered to versatility than .22 rf. From blanks and CB caps to Stingers and everything in between. From no bullet to shot to bullets from 29 gr. to 60 gr. frangible, solid, hollow point, plated or lubricated. Some people here have a supply of primed empties that they load with black powder.

I don't have anything against air guns. I have plenty. I also own a couple Anschütz. Can't claim I can shoot consistently under an inch at 100 yards, that is hard even with good equipment.

Hand loaded ammo is as versatile as any PCP if you cast your own bullets and buy or swage jacketed bullets.

No PCP will match the range of performance that my .22 Hornet has. I can shoot a .22 air gun pellet using just a primer, a 40 gr. plain base cast bullet at .22 LR velocity, a 50 gr. cast bullet with a gas check at .22 Mag velocity or a Hornady 37 gr. VMax bullet at 3000 fps. Try and match that with a PCP.

Air guns are great but don't over state the case.

Tim

[Racing]

I´m not.
By a landslide even, which it seems is something many an enthusiast hasn´t grasped yet.

For instance. Many of these PCP´s sports "power dials" making that AS IS you can alter 22 to 25cal performance from approx 40J into supersonic by the turn of a dial if so setup. What that brings is a multi task tool where you don´t have to carry different ammunition to cater to a wider array of tasks. Same gun, same pills for shooting doves within a barn as a racoon at 100 meters.
Many others sport dials to alter hammer spring and what not to the same end result. Fact is as i´m mainly night time shooting my biggest issue with them for pesting is running out of battery for my IR and thermals. That´s saying something..

All you need to do up front is qualify the PCP in case for the given settings and you´re done. No. No need to replace the ammo. No, no need to carry spare mags. No, no need for "handloading", of any sorts actually, and at that at coffee n change money vs a powder burner.

Sure. 22lr ammo can be come by on the cheap in bulk, no argument on that one. Most likely not the SK Long range i use tho (or any other "higher end" ammo in 22lr).

Pills for a PCP in turn, if you wish, you can qualify just as die hard as i do for my powder guns, netting the approx same result.

So yeah. I guess i´ll stand by that statement until you prove otherwise actually.

Don´t get me wrong. Love my powder burners and when more "substantial" amounts of power is needed they are, and will be, my go to.
For the smaller caliber stuff tho.. not so much anymore.
Like it or not.

[dtknowles]

I´m not.
By a landslide even, which it seems is something many an enthusiast hasn´t grasped yet.

For instance. Many of these PCP´s sports "power dials" making that AS IS you can alter 22 to 25cal performance from approx 40J into supersonic by the turn of a dial if so setup. What that brings is a multi task tool where you don´t have to carry different ammunition to cater to a wider array of tasks. Same gun, same pills for shooting doves within a barn as a racoon at 100 meters.
Many others sport dials to alter hammer spring and what not to the same end result. Fact is as i´m mainly night time shooting my biggest issue with them for pesting is running out of battery for my IR and thermals. That´s saying something..

All you need to do up front is qualify the PCP in case for the given settings and you´re done. No. No need to replace the ammo. No, no need to carry spare mags. No, no need for "handloading", of any sorts actually, and at that at coffee n change money vs a powder burner.

Sure. 22lr ammo can be come by on the cheap in bulk, no argument on that one. Most likely not the SK Long range i use tho (or any other "higher end" ammo in 22lr).

Pills for a PCP in turn, if you wish, you can qualify just as die hard as i do for my powder guns, netting the approx same result.

So yeah. I guess i´ll stand by that statement until you prove otherwise actually.

Don´t get me wrong. Love my powder burners and when more "substantial" amounts of power is needed they are, and will be, my go to.
For the smaller caliber stuff tho.. not so much anymore.
Like it or not.

I am not against PCP guns, I have one. I am against exaggerated claims.

Big bore PCP's have only handgun ballistic capabilities.

Smaller bore PCP are lacking bullet weight and velocity. You can tone down a centerfire .22 or fire it at full power that is more than twice what a PPC can do and can a PCP launch a jacketed hollow point fast enough for explosive terminal ballistics? I understand that it does what you need it to do but that does not count a versatility. Really is it that much harder to reach in your pocket to grab a different round than it is to adjust the regulator on a PCP.

PCP projectiles lack also in ballistic coefficient, they have a lot of drop and wind deflection.

There is still a lot that PCP cannot do well.

Every gun is a compromise toward a desired goal. PCP has a niche, but it is a niche tool.

Tim

[Racing]

Apples and apples now please.
If that slipped, i´m of course comparing to the most common caliber there is. The 22lr.

When i state that a 22 or 25 PCP will do what a 22lr does.. what´s wrong with that? Cause it does, there´s no novelty to that what so ever IMO.

"Big bore" PCP´s, i honestly fail to see the point. Thus, don´t own one n never will.

[NSB]

I am not against PCP guns, I have one. I am against exaggerated claims.

Big bore PCP's have only handgun ballistic capabilities.

Smaller bore PCP are lacking bullet weight and velocity. You can tone down a centerfire .22 or fire it at full power that is more than twice what a PPC can do and can a PCP launch a jacketed hollow point fast enough for explosive terminal ballistics? I understand that it does what you need it to do but that does not count a versatility. Really is it that much harder to reach in your pocket to grab a different round than it is to adjust the regulator on a PCP.

PCP projectiles lack also in ballistic coefficient, they have a lot of drop and wind deflection.

There is still a lot that PCP cannot do well.

Every gun is a compromise toward a desired goal. PCP has a niche, but it is a niche tool.

Tim

Good answer. Unfortunately, many get on here, and other web sites, and make grossly exaggerated claims. Anonymity and a keyboard aren’t facts.

[KenH]

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

That sums me up about as well as can be. I just enjoy "tinkering" more than anything.

[dverna]

That sums me up about as well as can be. I just enjoy "tinkering" more than anything.

Exactly Ken!!! There is no one size fits all.

I hate to tinker so something that does what I need out of the box fits my personality. I admire guys like our member (P Fladios???) who is creating a necked down 9mm for cheap plinking for HIS needs. I have lathe and might be able to do what he has done, but it does not "turn my crank".

[alamogunr]

I started in air rifles with a Weihrauch HW95 springer. I was 79(I'm 81 now) when I got it and really enjoyed shooting thru the back door of my garage. Enjoyed it until I over did things with a 200+ shot day. Cocking that thing that many times left my right arm stressed beyond belief. It took me almost 2 months to recover.

Enter dreaming about a PCP. dverna's posts about his Daystate Huntsman convinced me that I needed one. By this time the Daystate Huntsman Revere was available. It's slightly more convenient being regulated. Now I've managed to acquire a tank and compressor. I really enjoy shooting out of the garage in warmer weather. Anything lower than 40º here in Tennessee chases me back inside. Right now I'm looking forward to Spring.

I haven't given up casting and reloading. I've just embarked on powder coating my cast boolits. This promises to be an activity in itself.
I also am going to try a suppressor on the CZ .22 rifle if my older son ever decides to go ahead and pull the trigger on one and also set up a trust just for the suppressor. That will make it easier to pass on the sons and grandsons when I take the dirt nap.

[rbuck351]

dverna

I want to thank you for convincing me to get a PCP. I found, at a local auction, a Benjamin Discovery with hand pump and scope for around $250. I know it's not a high end PCP but it will group under 1" at 50 yds which is better than all but one of my 22 lr rifles.

It didn't take long before the hand pump thing got old but someone on this forum told of an inexpensive Vevor 12v/110v pump for $175. I got one of those and several tins of Crosman hp pellets and a suppressor. I'm set.

I still cast for all my powder burners as I enjoy that as well but the PCP just adds to the shooting habit at very low cost. 1.5 cents per round is hard to beat.

[Gunslinger1911]

Totally in with OP's thoughts.
The family and I shoot "powder" guns a lot !! Kids all started around 4-6 yo.
And we all shoot pellet guns - a lot !!
No driving to range, etc.
Tried to wear out a Webley Tempest - bought used, still going strong 30 + years later.
I lucked into an FWB 300 waaaaaay back in the day.
THAT got everybody hooked on precision.
Trigger control, etc. I think these skills transferred to cartridge firearms well
Teen kids were hitting empty 22 cases at 30 yds (24x scope) 5 for 5
The kids are in their 30's, life, their kids sports, etc get in the way of range time.
But, BBQ in back yard ??? Haul out the pellets papaw !!! We wanna shoot.
Just invested in an Air Venturi Avenger PCP (and electric pump !!)
All kinds of settings to fiddle with - and grand kids don't have to struggle with that pesky side lever on the FWB. (rough work for an 8 yo).
Air guns have a place, just as cartridge guns do (and the holey black too)
Training young'uns, (and us old'uns). Trigger control, safe handling, keeping muscle memory fresh.
Dumb AirSoft guns even have their place when I can't get out to ring steel with my "social" guns.
Funny thing, g-kids not so much into AirSoft.

This became a looooog post to just say, use ALL the tools we have to train, instruct, and just have fun.

[osbod007]

I shoot my 20 year old Gamo 220 nearly every evening, usually off hand at 10 steps. A 220 is the break barrel style and mine is .177. The trigger is terrible and I have been contemplating a "charliedatuna" trigger, but am unsure how changing the blade would help. Any satisfied Charliedatuna customers?

Yes I installed the new trigger, I believe it is now called GTX III. It has been a wonderful improvement over the original. Worth every penny. All pellet guns are diet picky so you have to experiment to find which pellets perform best in your unit. My Gamo 220 in .177 loves 7.87 JSB Exacts and 7.5 Crosman Destroyers. I have a long list of what it doesn’t like. Enjoy

[osbod007]

Congrats on the Discovery purchase. The Crosman HP pellets are a so-so pellet for accuracy. To get a better representation of the capabilities of your Discovery you’ll need to feed it better pellets. Might I suggest first try JSB 18.13 Exact Heavy, then JSB 15.89 Exact Jumbo, and H&N 21gn Baracuda/Beeman Kodiak. I’m sure one of these will bring a big smile to your face. Enjoy

[birdshot]

Yes I installed the new trigger, I believe it is now called GTX III. It has been a wonderful improvement over the original. Worth every penny. All pellet guns are diet picky so you have to experiment to find which pellets perform best in your unit. My Gamo 220 in .177 loves 7.87 JSB Exacts and 7.5 Crosman Destroyers. I have a long list of what it doesn’t like. Enjoy

thanks osbod007, I will order one now.

[rbuck351]

osbod007
I'm sure there are better pellets than the Crosman HP, in fact the RN premium shoot better for me. However I can shoot my 22lr cheaper than those high priced pellets. I have a Savage 1919 NRA target rifle that will shoot bulk Peters 22 ammo between 1/2" and 3/4" at 50yds.

The PCP is great for trigger time and is also great for up to 50yds on small pests. When past that range the drop becomes more of an issue than accuracy and it starts to become less lethal on all but the smallest pests.

I'm not into bench rest accuracy but want guns that will put bullets into the kill zone of whatever critter I want to put down. As range increases, air guns loose killing capacity unless you move up in bore size. As you move up in bore size, the cost of pellets and the guns goes up a lot. I already have 22h, 22kh, 223, 243 and larger with enough components to shoot as much as I want for the rest of my days. I'm not interested in buying pellets at $80+ per thousand.

I have recently come to realize that won't use up half of my components or 22lr in my remaining days or for that matter the amount of pellets that work good enough for me.

I was not satisfied with the cheap air rifles I had and got the Discovery at a decent price. It and the Crosman RN pellet work fine for me.

[brokeasajoke]

Loving my Benjamin Kratos PCP. The kids and I burned it down Sunday afternoon with no noise which is my concern on Sundays. Using the cheap crossman pellets we had tons of fun shooting all sorts of things for a couple of dollars.