Another mini lathe question

[country gent]

I seen videos where the chuck keys are left in the chuck, gloves worn while running the machine. Rags used on parts while running. many no nos.
Usually when the chuck key hits you after being left in you remember it. Chips or chuck jaws rough surface can and will grab gloves and suck you in, same with rags. Ive seen them pulling chips out of the way again a no no chips are hot and sharp they will snag and cut. Heavy chips will act just like a garrote.

Have a place for the chuck key ( other than the chuck) and always put it there. Some production machines had a tube with switch in the bottom it the key wasnt in it the machine wouldnt turn on. Dont wear gloves your hands will wash easier than being wrapped up around a part.same with rags. If for some reason I need to use emery the first few are not wrapped around but backed with a file. And last never use a file with out a handle. Youll be amazed how far a spinning chuck jaw can drive that tang into your wrist.

[uscra112]

Yeah, one of the first thing my first machine shop mentor drilled into me was that you never take your hand off the chuck key until it was back in its' nest.

We were working around some pretty big machines then, and a rule I set for myself was to never stop being afraid of them.

I'm also remembering that even the V.P.s I dealt with at GM and Ford never wore ties. I once had a subcontractor show up at the St. Catherines engine plant wearing a tie, and they wouldn't let him past security. Long hair was another no-no.

[country gent]

They may have a suit on but the ties were off or tucked in the shirt. Always wore a ball cap in the shop still do lathes arnt bad for hair but mills and drill presses will scalp you. At campbells hair nets were mandatory, not so much because of machinery but being a food plant.

Loose clothing can become an issue on bigger machines.

Another thing when you set up a machine look for the "pinch points" that can grab you. On a lathe between the carriage and the part can be closer than your hand arm is thick.With short tools between the tool holder part is another. If memory serves the Big lathe at our plant low speed was 5 rpm. My big drills lowest speed is 40 rpm. Onwe thing I liked on the industrial machines was the hand clutch and the foot breaks.

[uscra112]

One of the big lathes I test-ran could peel off chips 1/2" wide and .050" thick, and they came off bright blue. You do NOT want one of those going down your shirt. Today that lathe would be shrouded in guarding, but back then OSHA was still in diapers.

[country gent]

Those Cs or 6s fly pretty good to. But they are easy to clean up

[uscra112]

We better stop now - we're scaring these people to death.

[Slugster]

I got a long shirt sleeve get caught in a rotating chuck on my 14/40 several years ago. Thank goodness I was threading, so the speed was slow. Likewise thank goodness for Emergency Stop Buttons!

[45_Colt]

As for gloves, vinyl food handler gloves are OK. They are weak and will easily tear/break if caught. Same if using nitrile gloves (but pricey). And they help keep the hands clean and chip/grime free.

Gloves to avoid: cotton, leather, and so on.

Same as mentioned with rags, No way, keep away. Paper towels are good to go. They tear easy.

Shirt sleeves, rubber bands help contain them. Best is to avoid reaching over rotating objects. There is an off button that can be used instead.

Oh, and the chuck key, that is a good one, they do fly.

On top of all this, is one thing that is the most important: Distractions

Any distraction what-so-ever, just stop, hit the off button first thing. A distraction can be something as simple as your pup wanting dinner, a grandchild walking in, a box falling over. Anything that takes your mind off the machine.

45_Colt

[M-Tecs]

When I trained machinists if they left the chuck key in the chuck they got to wear it on a chain for a full day.

[country gent]

Never propped your feet up on the carriage woke up when they fell off to start another pass?????? works better on shapers. LOL.

[Scrounge]

I have been toying with the idea of getting a metal lathe. Zero experience and a bad back and neck so I cannot spend a lot of time at it.

I keep getting a 25% off coupon from Harbor Freight for one item with basically no exceptions. I have mentioned getting them before but no idea how long they will keep sending them to me before they give up trying to get me back to buy. I know their stuff is mostly junk and will require a lot of cleaning up, etc. and will need upgrades.

The store near me only has the 7x10 in stock (must be in stock for coupon at store). I could get it for $563 ($750 less 25%). Little Machine Shop sells a16" bed extender for $220. I know there are other upgrades required. Guess my question, assuming I can convince myself I can take a lot of time doing the upgrade work, is would I be better off just getting a better machine as suggested in the recent table top lathe recommendation thread? I would be doing gunsmith related work primarily. Would the 7x even handle barrels?

Looking to make use of the coupon before it's no longer going to be offered to me. I could always find another use for it but I typically wait until the weather is better so I have to decide soon. I have been going back and forth on the lathe question in my head for a very long time now. I do not have to buy anything now, this is just an opportunity and we all know prices are not coming down anytime soon, if ever.

Thanks,

Ron

I'd hold out for the 7x12 at least. I had a 93212 7x10 from Harbor Freight, and had a lot of problems with it. Got frustrated enough to moan about it my wife, who told me to take another class. So I did. And in the early part of that class, I found out that I lacked the sense of touch necessary to get accurate measurement with the dial caliper and micrometer I was using. Wasn't the lathe, it was the "stick actuator" as we called it in the USAF. I'd look at this: https://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-7x16-Mini-Lathe for $1600 right now. Last time I looked, they were on sale for $1000 or so. This lathe has "true-inch" dials, which is a couple of hundred bucks to upgrade the HF lathes. Already has the 16" bed. And they have a pretty good reputation in the 7x mini-lathe community. Check out this group from Yahoo: https://groups.io/g/7x12MiniLathe They moved to Groups.io back when Yahoo was self-destructing their groups. They are made in China. They are not perfect, but they are quite a bit cheaper than about anything else. Last I looked, Grizzly wanted over $10K for their East-Asian version of the Heavy 10L. And it isn't compatible with the US-made Heavy 10L lathes. Also check out this site: https://gadgetbuilder.com The guy who runs it is a moderator over at 7x12Mini-lathes. Back some years ago, I looked for, and found, an American lathe of about the same size as the 7x lathes. It was $10k, also. Look at Grizzly's offerings, too. Also check out the Little Machine Shop.

I bought my HF 7x10 because it was the only lathe I could lay hands on the day I woke up from a horrible dream. At the time, it was $269 & tax. And a couple of years ago, I traded it for a couple of Unimats. Basically sold it for $700. I had upgraded it a bit. 5" 4-jaw chuck, and a few other odds and ends. Do not expect super accuracy from the stock 3-jaw chuck. But also know that .003 TIR on a chuck is excellent.

I have an Atlas TH42 (10x24) lathe. Same spindle bore and such as the 7x mini-lathes. Also got a restorable hulk of a South Bend Heavy 10L vintage 1941.

"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."

All the problems a mini-lathe has are fixable. And they generally have fewer problems now than they did when I bought my 7x10 in 2008. Think of it as a kit and treat it accordingly. Though if you can afford them, a Monarch 10EE is a hell of a lathe, and only about $100K. Makes the $1000-$2000 for a tricked out mini-lathe look pretty good if you don't have a bunch of cash to play with.

Bill

[MrWolf]

I already got the HF 7x10 yesterday. Couldn't beat the price at around $560 or so. I already plan on getting the 16 bed extension. A lot depends on what the doc says can be fixed or not.

[MrWolf]

Bit pissed about my pain RN. Out here I have to go to Winchester VA for my pain med every month and pee in a cup every three months. Back in August I had x-rays done of both sides of my hips. This guy ordered them. Got my results back of the MRI's from Tuesday and saw the xray readings. Damn doc never followed up and I had to beg for the MRI's and file the appeal myself. See my neuro doc on Tuesday. Recommendations on xrays were to have follow ups done.

This I why I am going the HF cheap route. It will let me know if using a stool, etc will allow me to work longer than an hour at the lathe, let me know if the motions of using the lathe will be causing pain from all my other herniations, and if my fingers (especially right hand) will be able to utilize the tools. At the very least I can use it for converting the 32 S&W brass to 32 LC

Ron

[MrWolf]

Lil update:

Looks like I have some planning and prepping work to do. I am going to get the HF 7x10 bed extension and some tools so I can hopefully learn a few things during recovery after my upcoming surgery on March 13th. Turns out my complaining about how much worse I am over the last year and a half was valid. Even I could see the huge difference in my back above my previous surgery four years ago. They are going to do a L3-4 XLIF (Extreme lateral interbody fusion) surgery an actually come in from my side to operate. If this fixes my sitting/standing issue then I am going to reward myself with a new lathe latter this year. I have been looking at the PM-1340GT 13″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe (Taiwan built ones). Think this should do everything I could reasonably expect. I am so tired of the pain and such that I figure I owe myself an extravagance that I can leave to my kids or their kids. For once I am not going nuts over the cost.

Think that one will do the job?

Ron

[country gent]

13 x 40 is a good size bed will be long enough to do barrels whats the throat size in the head stock? if big enough then a barrel can pas thru and be worked at the chuck. It should handle everything you want to do.

[MrWolf]

13 x 40 is a good size bed will be long enough to do barrels whats the throat size in the head stock? if big enough then a barrel can pas thru and be worked at the chuck. It should handle everything you want to do.

Model PM-1340GT Main Specifications from the Precision Matthews website:

Type: Geared HeadModel: PM-1340GTMax.
Swing over bed: 13″Max.
Swing over cross slide: 6-1/2″Max.
Swing in gap: 19-1/8″
Gap Insert Length: 7-3/4″
Spindle Face to Gap End: 5-1/2″
Spindle Face to Tailstock Quill Face: 40″
maxCenter Height: 6.5″
Spindle Center Line Distance from Floor: Approx. 46”
Max. Distance Between Centers: 40″
Width of Bed: 7-1/2”
Bed Height: 11.5”
Spindle Bore: 1-9/16”
Spindle Taper, Internal: MT #5
Spindle Mounting System: Cam Lock, D1-4
Spindle Speeds: 90-1600 RPM, 12 Steps
Bed Length: 63-3/4″
Lead Screw Diameter / Pitch: 7/8” / 8 TPI
Feed Rod Diameter: 3/4”Inch
Thread Cutting Range: 4-112 TPI, 40 Different Threads
Metric Thread Cutting Range: .25-7.5mm Pitch, 24 Different Threads
Longitudinal Feed Range (Left and Right): .002-.02 Inches Per Revolution
Cross Feed Range (In and Out): .001-.01 Inches Per Revolution
Spindle Length through headstock, Protruding End to D1-4
Chuck Mounting face: 13-3/4”
Spindle Length through headstock, Protruding End to 3 Jaw Chuck face: 17-1/4”
Cross Slide Travel: 6-3/4”Compound Travel: 3-1/2”
Tail Stock Quill Diameter / Travel / Taper: 1-9/16” / 4” / MT#3
Main Motor Horsepower: 2 HP
Power Requirements: 208 to 240 Vac, 60 Hz, 1 or 3 phase (Choose phase option when purchasing, both recommend a 20A Circuit)Power connection: Direct wire in to cabinet on the rear side of the headstock
Machine Dimensions, Assembled with stand: 52”H x 29”W x 70”L
Machine Weight, without stand: 1100 LBS
Machine Weight, With Steel Stand: 1350 LBS

The Taiwan made ones have a 5 year warranty. I took all the recommendations made and my own research and figured this would give me the best bang for the buck. I am very rural and finding a used machine is not really feasible nor do I know enough to evaluate one. Figure if they can fix me up good enough then I am splurging on this as I have always wanted to learn how to use a lathe. For those that offered assistance I will be reaching out when the time comes. I figure near the end of the year these will be back in stock and I will be physically able to enjoy (I hope). I can look at a larger machine but not sure it would give me what I want considering size, weight, etc.. Thoughts?
Ron

[country gent]

Sounds looks like a good machine. a couple upgrades to do if possible are Digital read out x and y. and a taper attachment. The dro is very handy and will make machining easier. The taper attachment will allow longer tapers to be turned before having to offset the tail stock. If it dosnt come with one then also add the aloris or dorin quick change tool post and a set of tool holders. What does it come with as far as chucks a 3 jaw to start 4 jaw for more precision. and last a collet chuck and collets. this machine should be able to do 5c collets. Closer style isnt so important as you arnt doing production work. a lever closer is nice but a regular collet chuck with key is fine.
PM may have a package that includes most of this in it.
Ive heard a lot of good on the PM machines. for an idea my 12 x 40 is 2 hp my 14 x 40 machine is 7 1/2 hp.
The speed range is good again for reference my 12 x 40 is roughly 1000 rpm and the 14 x 40 is 2500 rpm you will want to balance chucks for the upper rpm
The dro and taper attachment ordered with machine should come installed mush easier than doing it your self or finding someone to. The dro installation requires getting to the back of the machine drilling and taping holes making mounts indicating scales in and setting readers encoders. ordered with the machine it is installed set up and ready to go. The taper attachment will require the cross feed to be disassembled and from there its swap parts and bolt on.

There should be a tooling package available with it and some options.
I would call the dealer and discuss these upgrades and packages with him. The new machine will make finding tooling easier but with the remote location its going to be hard still.

[MrWolf]

Standard Accessories:

PM‐1340GT Standard Accessories: (Machine is available in either single or 3 phase, select from drop down when ordering)

Back Splash Guard
L.E.D. Work Light
High Precision NSK Spindle Bearings, +/‐ .0001” Spindle Runout Max
4 Way Tool PostThreading Dial (4” Travel Dial, 32 Tooth)
Reducing Sleeve for headstock
Dead Center for Headstock
Steady Rest
Dead Center for Tailstock Follow Rest
Feed Rod ClutchChip Tray
Misc. Tools for operation
D1‐4 Camlock Quick Change Spindle
Belt Cover Interlock Switch
D1-4 Face Plate (10″)
5 Year Warranty

*Note, chucks are not included standard, please select chuck option from the optional accessories if you need a chuck with your machine

They do offer the two axis DRO installation and taper attachment on GT lathes along with the other accessories.

Their expected in stock is next month but as I said everything depends on how well the surgery fixes some of my issues. I am hoping to become somewhat normal and not trying to get my hopes up to much. Really appreciate all the advice.

Ron

[uscra112]

Purely coincidence - a couple of months ago I bought a precision drill chuck with integral R-8 shank online from Precision Matthews, (via Amazon). Very well made, runout just as promised, very pleased with it.

[MrWolf]

Purely coincidence - a couple of months ago I bought a precision drill chuck with integral R-8 shank online from Precision Matthews, (via Amazon). Very well made, runout just as promised, very pleased with it.

From what I have researched, they have a good reputation for customer service and making sure everything is good. Believe the gentleman's name is Mark from what folks have commented on. That means a lot to me especially with what things cost nowadays. Pretty ridiculous with some things I bought only a year or two ago almost doubling in price. Guess we really have to stock up now on whatever as I doubt prices will be coming back down.