some thing cheap to shoot

[ebb]

During the Obama reign 22 LR was very hard to find, and on one of my prepper forums we discussed making a center fire option. Texas by God's post made me think of this, as the original was to be a 38 special necked down to 22 caliber. I've been thinking that maybe something like that needs to happen to make shooting/reloading affordable. Range pick up brass would seem to be the place to start, and the only option I can see is 9mm (not enough case capacity) or 223 (too much case capacity). That said the 223 case needs to be made smaller, either shoulder pushed back, or cut off and used as a straight walled case. I do not have any experience casting 22 caliber bullets so I do not know if that is a good idea or not, a cut off case could lead to a bigger bullet than 22 caliber which may be a good idea. With a shortened case (neck and shoulder pushed back) that remains 22 caliber I think something with the power level around 22 hornet, would be what I am looking for, or maybe a 6mm or 25 caliber with a neck and cast bullets, or a straight walled case with more taper and no neck, 7 mm or 30 caliber. That sounds kind a like a 300whisper/300 BO but its a serious 30/30 power level cartridge, that requires a pretty hefty charge of powder, something smaller, would be better I think so it would be economical. Picked up brass, small powder charge, cast bullets or cheap military 55 grain FMJ, and I can think of no way to get a cheap primer unless it was a home made primer. I am kind of a clutz so I am unsure about trying to make primers???? Any and all suggestions are welcome, just don't be cruel, and Thanks for reading!!!

[Fitz]

check out the 300 Ham'r or the 277 wolverine both are exceptional shooters with cast boolits and use from 15 to 18 gr of powder to cycle a semi auto action . well wort looking into and brass is made easily from 223 which seams to be endless at this point , or star=line makes that brass readily

[country gent]

We have a cartridge in the 5.6 x ?? that is reloadable and is very close to the 22 win mag. It sounds like you want to reinvent this or the 22 hornet. Maybe even the 218 bee.

223 brass could be reformed moving the shoulder back to around a case length of 1" with a neck length of around .350 of an inch this would leave a neck body length of around .650. Heres where the work comes in pushing the shoulder back the brass will thicken, not only from going to a smaller dia but the natural case wall taper. 223 brass at the neck is .010-.012 at the web it is .015-.017 then moving the body back and forming the neck from shoulder body is going to thicken it. I could see formed necks at .018-.020 wall thickness needing neck turning. A lot of work.

With 9mm it could be interesting to form it down to 32 cal allowing 32 pistol bullets to be used forming a small shoulder. This would allow 80-100 grn bullets to be used. If your looking for a 22 type performance the necked down 9mm case should be capable of pushing these bullets 850-1100 fps

A lot of work no real actions available in the correct length.No data available youll be working in the dark as far as loading. And now the the 22s are coming back its primers and powders that are hard to find. In the 2 wildcatts I roughly described they will probably be burning in the 8-10 grns of a medium range pistol powder to get the performance desired, Not the 1-1 1/2 grns of the 22 rimfire.

Now heres another thought range pick up brass 22 rimfire is probably the most common and there are reloading kits for it now. It would be loading only no special firearms custom die sets or blind load work up. The kit priming compound and a mould for healed bullets.

[elmacgyver0]

I occasionally still buy .22 LR, but if I quit tomorrow, I will most likely never run out.

[35 Rem]

Yep, King Osama did a number on 22LR availability. I pretty much stopped shooting 22's for the last 4 years of his reign and then bought a truck load of 22LR during the 4yr Trump slump (2016 - 2020) that the gun industry complained so much about when they couldn't give guns and ammo away. The vast majority of what I have was bought for $14 to a bit under $20 for 500 rounds. I'm sure I have a lifetime supply.

Your comment about primer cost/availability is the deal breaker really for coming up with a centerfire that will replace 22LR. I guess it depends on the volume you are trying to make up. If rimfire are absolutely unavailable as they were under king Osama then having the option of making a low volume of alternative loads is going to be the likely goal and cost per shot isn't so important. In that scenario my solution is cast bullets in 32-20. But that one isn't a good idea for the masses because 32-20 brass/ammo is hardly ever easy to find.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have a lifetime supply of 22 Hornet cases (approx 1000) 2,500 SR primers and 5 lbs of powder. That is my 'go-to' rifle for any critters.

[15meter]

Just bought an 800 round box of 22LR for $55, a brick of small rifle/small pistol primers is running $80-$90. Still cheaper to shoot 22 LR. I still go through 100-150 rounds of 22 LR each week.

I need to pickup a pretty decent supply before we get further into the campaign season.

[dtknowles]

You are talking about .22 TCM. It is a very short .223/5.56x45, even shorter than .221 Fireball. I think it is 5.56x23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_TCM

I found a piece of factory brass at the range the other day.

Tim

[GhostHawk]

Back in the big .22lr shortage I worked up loads for my .223. (and cleaned and put my ruger 10/22 to bed)

Using Red Dot powder I quickly found 2 loads that were a good substitute for .22lr.

Both used Red Dot. 4.6 grains and 3 grains respectively. Both used the .224 Bator bullet from a Lee mold. One with gas checks, one without.
Both were minute of squirrel head at 100 yards. Aimed at the eye, 10 out of 10 would have killed the squirrel.

What they won't do is run a semi auto action. But in a single shot Handi Rifle they work fine. So don't count the .223 out.
Since then covid came, I do not shoot near as much. And I have stocked significantly in both .22lr and .22mag.

PS just checked ammoseek. 2.6 to 4 cents a round is not hard to find.
Cost of primers probably knocks out any centerfire out of contention.

[dverna]

Back in the big .22lr shortage I worked up loads for my .223. (and cleaned and put my ruger 10/22 to bed)

Using Red Dot powder I quickly found 2 loads that were a good substitute for .22lr.

Both used Red Dot. 4.6 grains and 3 grains respectively. Both used the .224 Bator bullet from a Lee mold. One with gas checks, one without.
Both were minute of squirrel head at 100 yards. Aimed at the eye, 10 out of 10 would have killed the squirrel.

What they won't do is run a semi auto action. But in a single shot Handi Rifle they work fine. So don't count the .223 out.
Since then covid came, I do not shoot near as much. And I have stocked significantly in both .22lr and .22mag.

PS just checked ammoseek. 2.6 to 4 cents a round is not hard to find.
Cost of primers probably knocks out any centerfire out of contention.

Good post….I was going to post similar but who is stupid enough to use $80/k primers, $50/lb powder, and waste the time to cast and lube bullets when there are better ways to shoot inexpensively? Why, cast bullet shooters of course!

[35 Rem]

I have a lifetime supply of 22 Hornet cases (approx 1000) 2,500 SR primers and 5 lbs of powder. That is my 'go-to' rifle for any critters.

Yep, 22 Hornet is the most obvious centerfire replacement for 22LR! I have a Savage 340 in the Hornet. Somehow I've got 7 boxes of factory rounds for it in addition to the bags of brass. There must have been a time when brass was hard to get and factory ammo was the option I chose to get brass. The Hornet is hard to beat on a bang-for-the-buck basis. A pound of powder lasts forever no matter how you load it, don't it?!

Of course I've never loaded my Hornet to rimfire levels so it's not really a replacement for edible game. I push it for all it's worth with jacketed bullets and if you shoot a squirrel with that, you don't have much left to eat.

[45_Colt]

Using 3.1gr of Tite Group in a 223 with spit out a 55 gr FMJ at about 1050 fps.

45_Colt

[Rockindaddy]

Bad Ass Wallace: you have the right idea! I have a pile of 22 Hornet brass, a pile of jacketed boolits, 50 lbs plus of WW680 ball powder and 10,000 small rifle primers. Once shot a nice 8 point at 200 yards with my Ruger No. 1 22 Hornet. My go to rifle. Still have plenty of 22LR ammo and bunch of 22 pistols and rifles. I shoot a lot but still keep buying 22 LR ammo.

[DDriller]

Buy a good .22 or .25 caliber PCP pellet rifle and shoot cheaper than almost all firearms at $0.02 to $0.05 for the cheaper pellets. The more expensive pellets are $0.08 to $0.19.

[Randy Bohannon]

Whatever happened to the guy here that was necking down 25ACP to 22 cal. and called it the “Ladybug” ? I was very interested in his project he was as having good success with load development and he fell off the forum.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...The-22-ladybug

[Sasquatch-1]

To the OP, if you are casting your own bullets the biggest cost will depend on the cost of primers. When Obama was in office, I was loading .44 mag for about 3 to 4 cents apiece. During that time, I stocked up on powder and primers and can still load for that cost. I use range scrap lead from the club I belong to for bullets.

If you really want cheap you can go with the afore mentioned PCP or really have some fun and get a flintlock.

[Barry54]

Here are my thoughts. Use the 9mm brass as is. Pick up a cheap carbine and enjoy. For economical use cast a 105 grain swc or something even lighter if you prefer. I worked down loads with Vihtavuori N310 powder as low as 1.2 grains, but velocity was more consistent around 2.0 grains. Then at the end of the day, you can swap magazines and use full power ammunition for bumps in the night.

On the 223 case I recommend the 7mm TCU cartridge. The dies come with a tapered expander and one pass in a full length sizer die and you’re ready to go. I cleanly took a ferrel hog with one hunting in Texas.

6.5 TCU is comparable to 6.5 Grendel. I’ve seen deer harvested with both. Similar results and trajectory.

6mm TCU is the same concept. For me, it isn’t different enough from 223 to invest in the wildcat.

If you are into the ar platform, I think it’s called a 25 Sharps. Which is 223 expanded to 25 caliber. Those who use it buy up all the 87 grain bullets as soon as they come in stock.

My vote goes to the 7mm TCU if you want a wildcat. It’s easier for me to cast larger diameter boolets and it’s got good power for its size and economy.

If you just wanna reform brass and be cheap get a 300 Whisper or 300 blackout as they call them now. You will need to rough cut the 223 brass to length. Then size and trim to exact length. Then you will need to neck turn most of the brass because the body is too thick now that it’s the new neck.

There is a wildcat based on full length 223 expanded to 30 caliber. 30 Apache maybe?

[Texas by God]

An 8+ pound single shot pellet rifle is not what I like or want. I have a Benjamin Trail .22 that I don’t care for.
A PCP rifle is expensive. And heavy.
I’ll just keep shooting my .22 rimfires with the money I saved by not buying an air rifle.
BUT- if I lived in town my opinion might be different.


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[Electrod47]

Rib eye steak is now 16 bucks a pound. Have I stopped eating Rib-eye? Hell No. Maybe less for sure. Same with shooting. I shoot what I want, when I want. Maybe a little less for sure.

[jdgabbard]

I don't see the purpose of coming up with a brand new cartridge, and spending $500-1000 building a gun to shoot it, when we already have plenty of options that can serve this purpose. 92gr 358242 over 3.0gr of Bullseye in 38spl, 0.10 - 0.15/rd depending on your primer cost. I just converted a H&R SB1 to 7.62x25, 90gr bullet over 4gr of Unique, costs about $0.11/rd. Want a semiauto??? 92gr 258242 over 4.5gr Bullseye or Red Dot, or 6gr of Unique in the 9mm. Runs my pistols or my Ruger PC Carbine, and costs about $0.11/rd tops.

Sure, you're not going to get old school 22LR pricing of $0.04. But when primers are costing on average 0.08-0.10 per primer, spending 0.10-0.15/rd isn't bad at all.