some thing cheap to shoot

[Texas by God]

A friend bought a bunch of reloading stuff at a flea market Saturday. I was just looking through it and noticed a bunch of 30 carbine brass. Was thinking maybe this would be the cheap to shoot cartridge???? I know Ruger made a single action revolver, and I think it was AMT made a semi auto, has anyone ever chambered a bolt action in 30 carbine?

The Ruger .357 bolt action would be great in .30 Carbine.
I’ve never heard of a factory bolt action in .30 Carbine.
It would be a blast.


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[ebb]

A CZ or a Howa mini action in 30 carbine would be perfect. super light and a low power scope. That would be the Iguana killingest machine in all of south Florida. If it had a suppressor even better. Oh I am beginning to talk myself into this.

[Charlie Horse]

The Ruger .357 bolt action would be great in .30 Carbine.
I’ve never heard of a factory bolt action in .30 Carbine.
It would be a blast.


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Too bad someone doesn't make an affordable 357 bolt action rifle. I ain't payin' $1400 for one.

[Kestrel4k]

Too bad someone doesn't make an affordable 357 bolt action rifle. I ain't payin' $1400 for one.

Ruger made a lot of them. $600 street price only 10 yrs ago.

[dverna]

Ruger made a lot of them. $600 street price only 10 yrs ago.

But they shot like crap. I wanted one, but the accuracy issues killed it for me. And they seemed overpriced when bargain bolt actions were $250. In fact I bought two TC Compass rifles for $225 each delivered.

[ebb]

I wish I had got a few of the compass rifles, everybody loves them. CDNN had Sako TRGS rifle for sale and I bought one of the super magnums, I should have bought them all.

[Kestrel4k]

But they shot like crap. I wanted one, but the accuracy issues killed it for me. And they seemed overpriced when bargain bolt actions were $250. In fact I bought two TC Compass rifles for $225 each delivered.

My experience was that they shot well; developed a few different loads that did 0.4" to 0.5" at 50 yds (5-shot groups) - one of those loads was the wonky 230gr wadcutter, which even fed from the mag.
How did those TC's do with 357Mag, and how are those priced now ?

Edit: And the Rugers didn't seem overpriced to me at that time; their significant increase in value seems to verify that.

[dverna]

My experience was that they shot well; developed a few different loads that did 0.4" to 0.5" at 50 yds (5-shot groups) - one of those loads was the wonky 230gr wadcutter, which even fed from the mag.
How did those TC's do with 357Mag, and how are those priced now ?

The TC's were in rifle calibers.

You are the only one I have ever seen post a good report on accuracy with the Ruger in .357. Most were shooting 2" or larger at 50 yards and many folks thought that was "good" but I have had pistols that will do that for 5 shots.

I have a pet peeve about the use of the word accuracy. You know what it is. Others seem to think minute of pie plate is "good"!

The Compass rifles are no longer available; but if you find one in a caliber you want, I would get it. They are ugly but mine shot better than my M70 Coyote that cost 3-4 times as much.

[ebb]

The Rugers were overpriced at the time. I have a friend that bought one 4 or 5 years ago and it was over $850 then if I recall. I was thinking that it would be a good way to have a suppressed rifle and be able to use the dies and reloading stuff I already owned for the new suppressed rifle.

[Kestrel4k]

Slugged the barrel; determined an optimum torque for the action screws. One jacketed load and at least two different cast boolits. Three different powders.
No rocket science here; I just don't create my opinions from other people's lack of success.

[Kestrel4k]

To break to a more positive note; who wouldn't get a smile from this ?
That right there is a subsonic, sub-MOA (@ 50 yds) load; note the seating depth.

Attachment 324586

[farmbif]

maybe I just dont get it. why would 30 carbine be any cheaper to shoot than any other small center fire round, 38 spl, 357 mag, 9mm, 40 S&W, 32-20, ect. its easy to find inexpensive once fire brass in 9mm and 38 spl.
if your looking for good cast bullet shooter with minimal powder and small amount of lead why not 22 hornet or 25-20, 380, 9mm ect. a primer is still going to cost $0.08- 10 cents each a bit more than the least expensive 22lr

[dverna]

Slugged the barrel; determined an optimum torque for the action screws. One jacketed load and at least two different cast boolits. Three different powders.
No rocket science here; I just don't create my opinions from other people's lack of success.

I hope you did not misinterpret my post. I was not questioning your results. My point was others had worse results with the 77/.357 and that influenced my decision not to get one.

There are rifles that seem to shoot well for nearly everyone, and some that are not as forgiving. It is why I look at the results from other shooters, or even gun rags, before making a purchase. I don't mind rolling the dice on a $250 gun with decent reviews (like I did with the Compass) but not on a $600 gun.

I could not find enough reports that gave me confidence in the gun. I spent a lot of time searching the web and different forums because I was very geeked up about getting one. That was when .38's were cheaper to shoot than .22's so that was the reason to get one. In fact, after I gave up on the Ruger, I looked at the .357 Baby Rolling Block as an alternative; but it had its share of issues as well.

The Ruger 77/.357 is now $900. And today, with $70+/k primers and $45/lb powder, plinking with a CF does not make sense for me. I have more economical ways to get trigger time.

Anyway, good to know they can shoot well without too much effort. That will be useful information for others to know.

[Larry Gibson]

While Don (dverna) makes a good point several good points about the use of air rifles and 22LRs in lieu of reloading "something cheap to shoot" in these days of high priced primers and powders and the cost of a reline, rebarrel, or purchase of a new or used rifle for such. However, I'd offer another viewpoint.

I've had a Ruger #3 22Hornet that the barrel was shot out years ago. I've often hallucinated about having it relined or rebored to something like the 32 H&R or 357 magnum. Just never have gotten around to it though. Mostly because I'd spend a lot of money on getting it done and it wouldn't serve any better than several other rifles i have already. I already have an M1 Carbine, a TC Contender 30-30 carbine barrel, a Mini Mk X 7.62x54, A couple M94 30-30s several 308Ws and '06s. I also have several milsurp bolt guns of 7.72, 7.65, 303 and 8mm. All of them can be loaded with a Lee TL314-90-SWC [I already have a 6 cavity mould, scrap alloy that cost nothing and the appropriate sizers] over 2.8 gr [the 30 Carbine up through a 300 Savage case capacity] or 3.2 gr of Bullseye [308W up through 30-06 cases capacity] for a very accurate and pleasant to shoot 800 - 1000 fps. At today's prices that's under 2 cents for the powder (should get 2100 - 2500 rounds per pound). Figure 8 cents for the primer. I already have several bottles of LLA so no cost for the lube. Other than my time casting and loading of which I thoroughly enjoy both as they are my "hobbies" there isn't any other cost to loading for those rifles. Basically 10 cents per shot or about $5.00 for the 50 shots on my usual desert walkabout.

So how does that compare to shooting 22LRs out of several rifles I have? Well, at today's prices, quality subsonic 22LR cartridges for my suppressed rifles runs $5 to 6 for 50 rounds plus tax. The current HS/HP bulk runs 10 - 12 cents a round. The high end match 22LRI use in local 100 yard BR matches runs $18 for 50 rounds. If I took the matches seriously I'd shoot top end match which is considerably more. Thus, where I live, even ordering from a supplier, shooting 22LR isn't really any "cheaper" for me to shoot than my cast plinking bullets. Yes, I do shoot a bit of 22LR also....when I choose to, not because I have to.

I also have 4 air rifles, all springers. They are all quality air rifles and I shoot them quite a bit also. Other than pellets i have no additional cost for those. They serve my needs perfectly for casual plinking to pest eradication and I used to shoot some Field target with one.

Lastly, I don't shoot to get "trigger time" anymore, haven't for a long time. I shoot now because i enjoy it. Loading the above mentioned plinking loads [we used to call the "cat's sneeze" loads] allows me to very pleasantly shoot and enjoy several of the rifles I really like which is why I have them. Yes, I appreciate and respect Don's (dverna's) choice of getting rid of most of his firearms and just keeping the ones he finds "practical" for his needs along with his views on such. His "need's" just aren't mine is all.

Forgot to mention that years ago I got one of the Spanish Destroyer Carbines that wasn't exactly in pristine condition. I recall it costing me around $80. Anyways i set the barrel back 1/2 turn to headspace on 38 Super cases as boxer primed 9mm Bergman wasn't available yet. I replaced the rear sight and have a TC Contender base on the barrel for a red dot sight. Makes a dandy walk about shooter. I got 500 cases and load a 356-120-TC over 3.5 gr Bullseye. At today's prices that runs me aorund the same 10 cents a shot.

[dverna]

Larry, it is a big tent. Everyone sees the question from their perspective and one view is not the right one for another.

The question “What is cheap to shoot?”, is an easy number crunching exercise. But that does not address the question “What is cheap and fun to shoot?” Or, “What is cheap to shoot that is effective to kill stuff with?”

Many people will be bored silly shooting an air gun. There is no noise, no recoil, no need to cast, no need to reload, no load development, no policing of brass. People who need those attributes to enjoy the shooting experience will not enjoy shooting air guns. And there is a stigma of air guns as being perceived as guns for kids and not “manly”. $15/500 meets my needs for cheap shooting. And it is no secret…casting and reloading are way down on the list of things I enjoy doing. For many years, I bought thousands of bullets a year so I would not have to cast/lube/size. And if I could have bought cheap ammunition, I would have stopped reloading target/plinking ammunition. But I am cheap…lol.

Air guns do not meet my need for “effective“ weapons. I soon decided to go back to .22 LR to deal with small critters. I can kill a squirrel at 75 yards with my PCP, but the .22LR is more effective. Cheap is not everything.

I am wired differently than most folks here. When I go on vacation, I enjoy the journey as much as the destination. We take side trips and get where we are going when we get there. For shooting, I abhor the journey. I only enjoy gun time…getting there is a necessary drudgery.


The OP may want something cheap to shoot, or something that is cheap to reload. This thread will provide food for thought and let the OP make the right decision for him.

You and I have made the right decisions for our needs.

[nanuk]

Options

isn't it great that we still live in a free enough country(s) that we still have options?

Even when some gov'ts are working tirelessly at removing those options....

[ebb]

Farmbif You are right! I am talking about something cheap, but if I can build something that preforms also it would be a major accomplishment. A rimed cartridge would be very difficult to get to feed should I decide to build a repeater, and some of the smaller pistol cartridges with next to zero power don't impress me either. But yes they would be the most cost effective for sure. I want a cartridge to take squirrels to elephants that I can make first round hit at 1000yds and beyond and reload for 7.5 cents a round. I am kidding obviously. But you get the idea, could we invent a cartridge that would be cheap yet have good enough performance that it would be a good choice for shooters that care nothing about being cheap. I like the idea of casting bullets, small case capacity, decent performance, and maybe something that would not need a very expensive set of custom dies. I totally understand that this may be impossible, but that is what makes it a challenge, and i may decide that what I want appeals to nobody but me. Thanks

[dtknowles]

You want something cheap to shoot look at getting a 32 cal. flintlock and make you own powder?

Tim

[dverna]

Farmbif You are right! I am talking about something cheap, but if I can build something that preforms also it would be a major accomplishment. A rimed cartridge would be very difficult to get to feed should I decide to build a repeater, and some of the smaller pistol cartridges with next to zero power don't impress me either. But yes they would be the most cost effective for sure. I want a cartridge to take squirrels to elephants that I can make first round hit at 1000yds and beyond and reload for 7.5 cents a round. I am kidding obviously. But you get the idea, could we invent a cartridge that would be cheap yet have good enough performance that it would be a good choice for shooters that care nothing about being cheap. I like the idea of casting bullets, small case capacity, decent performance, and maybe something that would not need a very expensive set of custom dies. I totally understand that this may be impossible, but that is what makes it a challenge, and i may decide that what I want appeals to nobody but me. Thanks

Ebb, I have not reread the whole thread, but your last post might be the most important.

There is a very high probability that there is nothing that needs to be "invented" that has not been done before.

The challenge is understanding what you want. Using the criteria of "decent performance" is too broad a term. Then adding, "some of the smaller pistol cartridges with next to zero power don't impress me either." means stuff like .32 CF's are not of interest...is that correct?

I used to shoot 20k rounds a year of trap loads so I understand the desire to save money. I reloaded 12 ga shells to save $.04 a round (compared to promo loads) for16 yard and doubles loads. Used about 16k of those a year so saved $650/year. Worked out to saving $20/hr using a PW 800+ with AutoDrive that could produce 500 rounds an hour. I saved $.15/rd on Handicap shells (compared to STS Nitros) for another $600 saving ($100/hr). Investing $2000 to save $1250 made sense even though I prefer using factory shells. I am too cheap to walk away from $1250 for 40 hours of press time.

The above long winded story is meant to ask the $64,000 question..."Do you shoot enough to make it worthwhile to save money?" If you will shoot less than 1000 rounds a year from the new rifle/caliber, any savings are not worth the investment. Here is why.

Using $50/lb powder and $1.50/lb alloy the cost for a .30/30 load using 10 gr of Unique and 150 gr bullet (about 1500 fps) is $103/k. With 6.5 gr of Red Dot and 125 cast, cost is $73. A new round that uses 5 gr of powder and 100 gr bullets will cost $58/k. Primers costs are the same for each. It takes a long time to breakeven with saving on powder and lead. A new gun, dies, mold and maybe a sizer die will be north of $600. A 12-40 year payback is not attractive.

BTW, I assume nearly everyone has a .30/30 and a mold for it. If not, you can run the numbers for a caliber you have, and the results will not be much different. (The .30/30 is one heck of a versatile caliber!!)

So. How many rounds a year will you shoot? What do you want to kill and at what range? What MOA accuracy do you want?

[ebb]

I used to shoot way over 1000 rounds a year. Then I got old and crippled and trying to work as a beat up old carpenter was tough. I had always envisioned retired life as shooting 3 times a week and building rifles the other days, but Sunday was a day of rest and church (maybe put some cases in the tumbler or load some). Life was not to allow that to happen. Dad died and we spent alot of time fixing up his house then, my brother rented the place to a low life then we had to really get to work on it. Mu house needed a new roof and pressure cleaning and a lot of painting. I am down to the front porch on the painting, but torn rotor cuffs in both shoulders is not helping me paint over head, and I can only take it for a few hours at a time. All that whinning said, as soon as the house is done i am back to shooting. The mayor built a berm in the back yard and informed me that a new Florida law allows home shooting ranges and I qualify. I have many old rifles that need repair and that is soon to be my job. But you are right, I do not need to invent a cheap gun so I can shoot. But I want to, I may never build one even if I do figure out what I want and how to build one cheap. You guys must be enjoying this as much as I am, or it wouldn't be 6 pages long. I don't want to run out of projects! I am an accuracy nut, I have a 6ppc that Ive shot a wallet group the measures .087 for 5 shots. No i don't expect that from a homemade wildcat. I just wanted to discuss the idea, is that OK. 22 hornet preformance made from a modern case that can be picked up off the ground at the range. Low powder capacity, but maybe with a bigger bullet than a 22 so I, a novice caster could have success casting bullets. Many years ago people were converting 30 carbines into something with a smaller bullet to up the speed. I seem to recall a .256 Johnson. Its OK Ive had theses obsessions before, sooner or later they go away. There are several that come close 300BLK, 250 BLK. The one that was described in the first page a 30 badger, 357 sig necked down to 25 or 30 caliber, 22TCM. I really like the 22 waldog, but nothing about it is cheap.