Primer Cup Foray

[elmacgyver0]

I thought I had better post my own thread instead of hi-jacking Mustangs.
Anyway, I have been collecting all the odds and ends to make my own primers or quite a while now.
I purchased the 22 Reloader primer cup makers from a special at Powder Valley.
I had a 1/2-ton arbor press, so I thought I would try that, instead of buying a new 1-ton unit.
I found out my galvanized steel I had left over from building an aluminum melting foundry was too thin, don't know for sure, but it is .010 not .017 as called for.
I did have a bunch of copper that measures .017, not .019 as I erroneously posted in Mustang's thread.
The copper seems to make nice cups and works better when lubricated with a bit of Ballistol.
I was going to synthesize some Lead Hypophosphite this morning but found that my stirrer-hot plate is only good for one vessel at a time.
I will resume the quest into chemicals when I receive my second stirrer-hot plate unit.
Anyone interested in one of these units check out Vevor, after you register the SH-2 unit is only $49.00, I saw them as much as $233.00 at Lab Equipment websites.
I have always enjoyed chemistry and look forward to making the primer compound.
Back to the primer cups.
I have no idea how the copper cups will work, but they are easy to make.
I did not have to buy the copper as I already had a lot left over from a still project, I did years ago.
Here are some pictures of my setup.

[firefly1957]

Thank you I am doing some work just for percussion caps now .

[MUSTANG]

Is the copper pure copper or a Gilding Metal Mixture (Copper and Zink). I believe somewhere I ran across a reference that some primer cups are made from a 70/30 Gilding Metal Mixture.

If your cups are pure copper; it will be interesting to see where (or if) the pressure level occurs that begins to flatten the Primer Cups.

[frkelly74]

I wonder if you can re use the cups from fired brass.

[MUSTANG]

I wonder if you can re use the cups from fired brass.

Yes. That is what is being done by numerous members on this site. The primer is removed, the primer anvil removed and saved, the firing pin dimple hammered or pressed out, most will resize the cup, new primer chemical placed, ad the anvil placed and pressed over the primer mixture.

elmacgyver0 is making new primer cups. This requires reuse of a Primer Anvil; but avoids the firing pin dimple and potentially other issues with metal fatigue of the cup some express concern over. With a newly formed primer cup there is no confusion downstream on a round with a dimple impression where a visual inspection would cause a question in ones mind if the primer was reloaded and is OK - or the round is one where the primer failed to fire because of a legacy slight dimple remaining on remanufacturing primers with previously fired primers.

[elmacgyver0]

I will be most likely using these in low pressure loads.
It is what I have at present, everything else I have I believe is too thin.
I hope they work ok, they sure are pretty.
I will also be using reclaimed primer cups as I also bought the NOE dies.
I also removed the dimples with a punch and hammer, have not tried the dies yet.
It will be some time before all this gets tested out as I am waiting for my second hot plate stirrer.
I believe it is pure copper, but it is kind of springy, not like soft copper tubing or electrical wire.

[elmacgyver0]

I tried some of my "too thin .010" galvanized steel to make cups, it worked very well, made nice cups, whether suitable or not for primers, I do not know.
All I have tried so far is for large primers.

[elmacgyver0]

I dug out some brass sheet I had left over from a 500 watt 432 MHz linear amplifier I built years ago for fast scan ATV, it measured a perfect .017.
I cut a strip and lubricated it with a little Ballistol and ran it thru the die, made nice little primer cups, but I could see a bit of stress at the fold over point.
I believe the punch inside the die (wasp waisted part) is too sharp on the edges and would benefit from slightly rounding the edge.

[Idz]

Annealing the brass may cure the stress fractures. I know annealing technique and material is the key to making cartridge cases.

[elmacgyver0]

Annealing the brass may cure the stress fractures. I know annealing technique and material is the key to making cartridge cases.

I will most likely try that; I annealed some hard copper tubing once to make experimental cartridge cases for a couple old Gahendra rifles I have.
I have also thought about cutting up some scrap brass to make the cups, might not be thick enough though.

[elmacgyver0]

It does help to anneal the brass, but I still hope the copper works because I have a good supply of it.

[elmacgyver0]

I just got done reconditioning some large rifle primer cups.
Now I need to make up some primer compound.
I have the lead hypophosphite ready, synthesized up a batch last weekend.
The lab work is interesting and kind of fun, but it does require patience.

[elmacgyver0]

I tested putting an anvil in my copper cups, seems too tight and the steel ones I made were too loose, so I have Papa Bear and Baby Bear, seems the missing Bear is Mama.
So, my tests will be with reconditioned cups.
I mixed up a small batch of EPH 26 and loaded some into three reconditioned cup and covered the compound with a paper disc, then seated an anvil.
They look real pretty, I activated with an alcohol/water mix and when dry will load into .45-70 cases and test fire in a trapdoor.

[P Flados]

You do not need the paper disc in any of the EPH-2x mixes.

I did EPH-25 for a while, but now do an EPH-20 style mix.

If you are inserting dry EPH-2x primers into your brass, wear hearing protection. I insert my EPH-20 primers into my brass before drying. I had too many surprise detonations when I was letting them dry first.

Good luck with your 45-70s.

[MUSTANG]

I tested putting an anvil in my copper cups, seems too tight and the steel ones I made were too loose, so I have Papa Bear and Baby Bear, seems the missing Bear is Mama.
So, my tests will be with reconditioned cups.
I mixed up a small batch of EPH 26 and loaded some into three reconditioned cup and covered the compound with a paper disc, then seated an anvil.
They look real pretty, I activated with an alcohol/water mix and when dry will load into .45-70 cases and test fire in a trapdoor.

elmacgyver0 :


While depriving; are you sorting your remanufactured Primer cups by color (Brass and Chrome Plated) and source (i.e. Brass Head stamps)? I sort into individual pill bottles by color, and by primer type (SP/LP/SR/LR) while depriving. I have found that there are different sized anvils in some salvaged spent primers, additionally - more differences between USofA produced and imported head stamped brass. Good improvement by simply sorting into the 8 different pill bottles; and I am now sidelining foreign made primers identified by Headstamp on brass for further sorting if needed in future.

Anyone notice the "OLD STYLE" anvils coming out with some of the spent Foreign Primers? By that I mean all the USofA I have found use the 3 legged anvil; while some of the foreign primers are using the 2 legged primer anvils of the WW-II and older era. These older style primer anvils do not sit well in the USofA primer cups that use a 3 legged anvil style.



pics of 2 legged and 3 legged anvils and primer cups.

[Bmi48219]

Every time I read a primer-reloading thread I am inspired.
I generally view cartridge reloading as a statement of independence in the face of government overreach. Primer reloading is at another level and about as patriotically independent as a man can get.
John Paul Jones would be proud.

[Martin Luber]

ELEY hand primes their 22 shells in little craters in case one of the huts goes up.

As the Swiss manuals say, “ Careful handling serves to avoid anger”

[elmacgyver0]

I am new to this as I had plenty of commercial primers, but see my LR primers drying up, so I thought I would try my hand at reloading them.
I have been collecting the materials and equipment for years in anticipation of eventually doing this.
I recently started keeping the different sized primers separate and see I need to go further down this road as far as manufacturer.
As far as making primer cups, I have ruled out the copper, they are easy to make, but just too soft as I am sure aluminum is as well.
I just need to experiment to get the best thickness.
I primed three .45-70 Hornady cases with the three primers I reloaded last night, no mishaps.
I did put a folded-up shop rap over the case mouths and wore earmuffs, just in case.
They are now in my dehydrator for a couple hours just in case they need a little more drying.
I only did three because I have never made the compound before, and I want to make sure it is viable before wasting a bunch of time making dud primers.

[elmacgyver0]

I just tested a primer loaded into a Hornady .45-70 case made with a reconditioned primer.
I reconditioned the primer with the NOE sizing tool with a Lee App press.
I used a primer recipe from Aardvark reloading called EPH 26, a modification of the EPH 20 formula.
I did the test in a Trapdoor with about a 23-inch barrel.
I did this in my garage with the lights off.
The primer fired fine with about a six-inch flame with sparks from the end of the barrel.
I only did the one as it seemed pretty loud, and I didn't want to get in dutch with the wife who was sleeping in the other end of the house.
I quickly sprinted back to the basement with my carbine and planned to disavow any knowledge of the deed in case she asked.

[elmacgyver0]

It seems these formulas always have very exact down to the half grain or so quantities.
The scale I used measures to the grain but that's it.
I have more accurate scales but decided to dedicate this one to my "chemistry set".
The EPH 26 formula I used goes as follows.
11.6 grains LH (lead hypophosphite)
11.6 grains LN (lead nitrate)
7.5 grains NC (nitrocellulose)
2.5 grains Glass
1.7 grains aluminum

Well, I just rounded everything up to an even number.
This formula is non-corrosive, very energetic, throws lots of sparks and flame, at this point, unless some unforeseen circumstance occurs, this will be what I stick with.
Lots of other formulas out there that are probably just as good, but why argue with success.