New caster with questions

[WestDivide]

OK sports fans, I'm embarking on this journey down the bullet hole.....
Just acquired a Lyman 450 sizer, got it set up with a heater and played with some earlier cast bullets. Upon investigating sources for accessories, looking at Lyman bullet dies. I ran through several search topics to no avail.

What does 'H & I' mean for a bullet sizing die?

Is it worthwhile to put a thermometer on the side of the sizer body?

It looks like bullet lubing and sizing is somewhat messy. Or am I missing something?

How much if any, do you clean dies and such before/after sizing sessions?

Thanks for reading, -West out

[Winger Ed.]

Welcome to the forum.

Lyman calls their new series of dies 'H&I' and it means 'holes and Improved'.
The old/original ones may not have had holes for the lube to go through, and the mouth of the holes wasn't tapered as much.

Compared to powder coating, it is a little messier.

You can put a thermometer on them, but you'll get a feel for the way the lube flows without one too.

You can clean them, but really shouldn't have to. Just keep dirt out and away from them.

[Bazoo]

Howdy and welcome.

H&I is the name for their sizing dies from the schematic they used in the early days. The die body which does the sizing is an H while the center punch that kicks the bullet back out is an I.

If it’s messy, you’re likely running too much heat. No you don’t need a temperature gauge. Temperature isn’t important. What is important is that the lube flows good enough to fill the lube grooves but not so well that it gets all over.

Too much pressure abs you’ll get lube squish under the bullets. When that happens I scrape that lube out with a little flat tool, a stick would keep from scratching the die. Then, use a cleaning patch with very light oil like remoil or wd40 to wipe the top of the I piece clean. That will help keep it from happening again.

I store my lubed bullets in old plastic cartridge trays. Base up, then I can put a piece of cardboard over the tray and flip it to have 50 bullets ready to grab.

If setup correctly, the nose of the bullet gets absolutely no lube on it. And the loaded cartridges have almost no lube on them as a result.

[Land Owner]

IDK if "lube-slop" on the base of a boolit renders the powder that is captured there inert - or not. My thinking is "not" as the lube is also burned, but if you can see any "slop" it's too much. "Lube slop" (an unofficial term) is a result of too great a ram pressure. Back off just a bit. Less is more. It's a Learning Curve and you are on it. Most of us have been there too.

My lube/sizer has no warmer. I use a 40W light bulb under a towel over the unit. In 10-minutes the lube flows sufficiently and without slop for making 100's of sized and lubed boolits, though I can make it slop with too much ram pressure. Just a 1/4 turn every 5 or 6 boolits, when the temperature is "right", and there is no slop. It is a "feel" you get on the Learning Curve.

I don't clean dies between sessions. The light bulb gets "cold" lube to flow. The closer to "ambient" temperature-to-lube-flow, the better, though a 20-degree rise to get things started is typical (if I had to measure rather than guess). There is still a lot of heat from a 40W bulb.

[fordwannabe]

I powder coat mainly because I HATE gooey mess'. I have a Lyman 450 and it is rusting in place . PC is DA BOMB. My traditional friends think I am nuts and dont like colored bullets, and "that's not the way Grandpa did it" blah blah blah, A cool whip bowl, some powder, and a $60 toaster oven eliminated most (some bullets I still lube BUT NOT MANY!) of the mess. WAHOO

[rcslotcar]

When I first started out casting/lubing lubing, I used a metal plate under the lube press I bought a cheap travel iron from a 2nd hand store for heat. That served well for many years.

[WRideout]

I bought a used Lyman 45 at an estate sale, and use my homemade stick lube which is rather fluid under normal conditions. Even today, when it is 22 deg. F outside and the basement where I work is cool, I do not have to heat the lube reservoir. Make sure the adjustment on the push rod is correct for the boolit you are sizing. If the lube holes in the die can squirt under the boolit, it makes an unholy mess. Moving the push rod adjustment up or down a bit can make a big difference.

Nose punches have to fit the boolit rather precisely; the wrong punch will mark up the lead badly. If you don't have the punch to fit, they are not too hard to make from a machine screw of the right diameter.

When I first got my Lyman 45 it had not been used in many years, and the lube was petrified to the point that the mechanism would not move. I disassembled it as much as I could, and boiled it in water until the lube was all out. After that I have not done any other cleaning besides wiping with a rag to get excess lube off the outside. When I change dies, the lube stays in them for storage. I keep them in discarded pill bottles. At my age I find I have empty pill bottles for almost any conceivable purpose.

Wayne

[ACC]

OR you could use the 45/45/10 LLA if you have little time and shoot a lot. BUTT and it's a big one. I powder coat all my 7.62X39 so I can get full speed out of my Ruger Bolt Rifle.

ACC

[35 Rem]

Lots of good advice above. One note about cleaning/storage of bullet sizing dies. I like the idea of old prescription medicine bottles. I use old 35mm Film containers but if you don't already have them you sure aren't going to get any new ones. But before you just start sticking dies in either container, I tape paper labels to the outside with die size clearly marked. Once you use them, they get coated with thick sticky lube and it's very difficult to just look at the die and see the factory size marking. Besides it's way easier to have the boxes marked so you pick the correct one at a glance.

[Bazoo]

When I change dies, of course, I back off the lube pressure (2 turns of the handles), remove the nut, and then push the die out with the handle. I wiggle it and remove it. I usually wipe the exterior with a lightly oiled rag just to remove the excess lube so I don't get hair and grit sticking to the die.

I store them all in a box loose, but pill bottles would work too. In the top of my box, I have notes for if dies have been lapped, or what they actually size, if different than marked, and for top punches and what bullets they are used for.

I don't disassemble the die and clean it unless I'm going to change lubes.

[swamp]

Where are you in Denver? I would be willing to give you a hand. Send me a PM if you like and we can set up a meet.
swamp

[WRideout]

Lots of good advice above. One note about cleaning/storage of bullet sizing dies. I like the idea of old prescription medicine bottles. I use old 35mm Film containers but if you don't already have them you sure aren't going to get any new ones. But before you just start sticking dies in either container, I tape paper labels to the outside with die size clearly marked. Once you use them, they get coated with thick sticky lube and it's very difficult to just look at the die and see the factory size marking. Besides it's way easier to have the boxes marked so you pick the correct one at a glance.

A trick I learned in army medic school is to cover the labels with clear cellophane tape so that they remain readable, and dirt doesn't stick to them.
Wayne

[405grain]

WestDivide: Welcome to the forum. As you can see, there are two chains of thought on boolits; those that use traditional lube & size, and those that powder coat (and generally use a push through sizer) Both types have their champions, and there even seems to be a friendly rivalry at times. If you're just starting out use the equipment that you have on hand, and learn as you go. You'll find lots of good advise on this forum. FYI; I prefer powder coating.

[Shopdog]

Without going in the weeds too far;

Generally two types of bullet sizers,a through die where the bullet goes through completely...usually being pushed by another bullet.

Or...

An in/out style which is what you have in the 450. Here's the thing with this style,you have choices on how much of the bullet gets sized. For instance,more often than not for me... rifle bullets are only pushed down in just far enough to "crimp" the GC(gas check) on... choosing to run them "as cast".

Never used a heater as our loading room is 24/7 HVAC'd. Good luck with your project.

[gwpercle]

If you use a "soft" lube you won't need any heat .
Soft lubes work better than hard lubes .
I've been sizing and lubing bullets on a 450 for 50 years ...
I use soft lubes and never had to use a heater .
Sizing and lubing with the 450 isn't messy ... one stroke , a tweak on the lube supply handle and out pops a sized and lubed boolit . Too much pressure and you might wipe a little lube off the base ... work the lube supply pressure just right and the boolit bases will be clean as a whistle .

You don't have to use Hard Lubes ... Soft Lubes make it easy ...especially when you are first getting started ...

Good Luck
Gary

[imashooter2]

H and I dies refer to their original designations in the Lyman 45 exploded view. See same at the link below.

http://www.imashooter2.com/Lyman_45.pdf

[Bazoo]

If you use a "soft" lube you won't need any heat .
Soft lubes work better than hard lubes .
I've been sizing and lubing bullets on a 450 for 50 years ...
I use soft lubes and never had to use a heater .
Sizing and lubing with the 450 isn't messy ... one stroke , a tweak on the lube supply handle and out pops a sized and lubed boolit . Too much pressure and you might wipe a little lube off the base ... work the lube supply pressure just right and the boolit bases will be clean as a whistle .

You don't have to use Hard Lubes ... Soft Lubes make it easy ...especially when you are first getting started ...

Good Luck
Gary

I use White Lable 50/50 and I do use a bit of heat with it. If I use too much, it's squishy, but not enough, and I get incomplete fill out of the lube grooves. My reloading room stays in the 50s during winter unless we have the fire going pretty good.

[WestDivide]

Hello all! Much appreciated all the comments on my venture. I'll make this a 'multi' response, hopefully I won't miss someone.

I got the 450 from another caster here on Boolits. N21911S made me a good deal on sizer and die/punch. Unit is half full of Carnuba Red, so I need to work that out. I may buy some more as it's as cheap as any and I'm not gonna get into making lube. So, the heater made it easy to get running.

So, I see the 'H & I' die name is a marketing issue, figures. but, thanks to all for clearing that up for me.

Winger Ed: Thanks for the welcome. Yea, makes sense to just keep things pretty clean. As far as a thermometer, yea, I'll prolly wait awhile till my curiosity kicks in on knowing where I'm at on temp.

Bazoo: like your idea on bullet storage. I've got some pistol flats stashed somwhere, might use 'em. On the few I did the other night, I saw the 'lube squish' on top of the die plunger. I'll work on that. I might figure out a wipe with mineral spirits to just keep the die clean enough to insert easily and replace o-rings, etc. Yea, give me a few sessions and I'll get the temp and pressure thing figured out. I do keep good records of my reloading and now casting efforts. Each rifle has a book describing its loadings and activity. Same with brass, assigned labeled lots are specific to each rifle. Pistols not so much. Their loadings are recorded in a more generic 'big book'.

Land Owner: I'll get the temp/pressure relationship figured out. I figured somewhere along the line I'd have to deal with warming. Space and ease indicated to me to get a heater. I set it up with a switch so it's easy to control.

Ford: I havn't ruled out PC'ing. When I figure out a few more issues with this venture, I may well add that feature. Fluorescent pink bullets sound pretty cool.

RCslot: I appreciate your ingenuity. This universal heater seemed best for ease and space.

ACC:I'm still in a formative state. As noted, PC'ing does appear to have its advantages. When I get to my 30-30 casting, would be nice to keep velocities up.

35Rem: Yea, only have one die so far, but have the world's supply of pill bottles, between my wife and myself. I think the city of Thornton had to put on extra help in their recycle works to handle the med bottles we put in recycling......

swamp: PM coming

Rideout: As I noted to 35Rem, I have bou coup pill bottles, as well as peanut butter jars, and vitamin bottles. And, I have shelves full of bolts, nuts, fittings, 50 yrs of accumulation in a shop. The solid ones I label with marker, and tape over with clear packing tape, same as my reloading labels.

405: yeah, I am starting to learn a little about powder coating. I've always had sizing/lubing in mind, for lack of other methods. A couple guys in my gun club powder coat, but I've never investigated it. My first exposures indicate it's pretty simple. After I get some bullets under my belt, and get a bunch more made, I'll likely check it out.

Shopdog: I want to make some 150 grain for my M64 30-30. I do want to use gas checks on them. I'll check out your idea further.

gw: I appreciate your comments. I'm kinda set into using the hard Carnuba Red for awhile, since the 450 is half full of it. So will likely keep it up. I'm not locked into any particular method, just what works for me now. Gimme a few hundred bullets and I'll likely have some different thoughts on lubes and methods. My next big need is to smelt, then cast some more wheel weights into bullets, get a .309/.310 die and top punch, and go from there. That isn't gonna happen till the weather warms up some. I'll smelt down at the Watkins ranch, so's not to arouse the neighbors here in town......

shooter2: Thanks for the reference. It helps with understanding the terminology.

As noted earlier, I appreciate all the comments concerning my latest endeavor. I hope I'm around long enough to make it worth while. And, it gives my wife and kids something else to worry about when I cash in...... so I guess I'm a sadist at heart....

But, all your comments have provided me with things to think about, so that's a good thing.

For now, -West out

[swamp]

I use the Carnuba Red and it works well for me.
swamp

[swamp]

I use the Carnuba Red and it works well for me.
swamp