My homemade Golden powder!

[Sandro_ventania]

As promised here's my Super Test!
https://youtu.be/1irzH27Ix0A?si=HzD0d0WlzgmfRbRz

All charges were 65gr by weight and the Lee 459-500-3R Boolit with an unlubed wood wad under it. Distance was 50 Yards. Rifle was the CVA Accura in 45 Cal.

Here's the numbers:

GP 588 (cold bore), 666: Avg 621 Gouping 3"

CP 918, 904, 898: Avg 906 Grouping "One Hole"

Balsa Corned 1097, 1120, 1034: Avg 1083 Grouping 2.5" Vertical String

Weeping Willow Screened w/SGRS 877, 917, 897: Avg 897 Grouping "One Hole"

In short, the Crimson perfectly matched my old stand by Screened Willow with Rice Starch binder 3%. The GP fell short. Seeing how screened powder isn't that much harder to make than Crimson I don't have much use for it, but it's still nice to know it works and it works really well. Keep in mind, for my Crimson I added the Iron and Carbon after there was color change, and I did not mill my carbon. It simply went through the meat grinder once.

Thanks for testing, the video was really good! I'm intrigued by the GP, because mine is very similar to the BP, yours was much lower. The crimson powder showed off by making just one hole, but I don't understand why you mixed charcoal in it...without the charcoal maybe it would be better and cleaner. You say that the GP was the bet because of the advantages. but it still is, as long as you adjust the load until you get to the speed you want. Producing a powder that exceeds the BP is easy, just add 10% of a product "X" that I won't say the name of, as I was told that I could be sued if someone overdoes the load... (as if I were responsible because of other people's stupidity and ignorance...ha ha ha!)... Let's go with the experiments, because it's a lot of fun!

[barrabruce]

Good stuff there Sandro.
It looks like time will tell. The more mature stuff looks more finely ground.

SSSteve good video. Thanks.

[2TM101]

The crimson powder showed off by making just one hole, but I don't understand why you mixed charcoal in it...without the charcoal maybe it would be better and cleaner.

Charcoal and Iron Oxide are components of Crimson Powder. Granted less than 2% each, but that is what makes it different from Golden.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

If I could make GP that was 10% off I would use it, but mine was more like 50% off. There's so many undefined factors as to what exact temperature, how much water and how much cook time, that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong or how to fix it in a repeatable way.

[Nobade]

If I could make GP that was 10% off I would use it, but mine was more like 50% off. There's so many undefined factors as to what exact temperature, how much water and how much cook time, that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong or how to fix it in a repeatable way.

Thanks for making the video. It's good to see others playing with this stuff. I wouldn't write that golden powder off quite yet. Hang onto it for a while and try it again in 6 months or so to see if it has improved. This phenomenon of it changing power over time is kind of perplexing, I don't think it is from changes in moisture but something is certainly happening. Initially my crimson powder was the best but recently the GP was by far. I have a new batch of GP I made this weekend, and I'm going to let it sit for a bit and see what happens. Also as I hear it, the commercial APP experiences something similar. I wonder what they do at the factory to minimize that.

[Sandro_ventania]

If I could make GP that was 10% off I would use it, but mine was more like 50% off. There's so many undefined factors as to what exact temperature, how much water and how much cook time, that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong or how to fix it in a repeatable way.

What is the purity level of the components? I recrystallize my potassium nitrate to purify it and my ascorbic acid is 99% guaranteed. My GP is lighter than his, I cook it over low heat, so it takes longer to cook and I remove it when it changes from white to light yellow. And I repeat, my GP is practically as good as my BP. I do BP just for the challenge, as GP works well for me. When your GP makes vooppp like the BP, you got the recipe right. try varying the proportions a little.

[Sandro_ventania]

Charcoal and Iron Oxide are components of Crimson Powder. Granted less than 2% each, but that is what makes it different from Golden.

The crimson powder that I know does not contain charcoal, only 5% iron oxide. I think I got some manganese dioxide... I'll test it to see if it really is better than iron oxide. Too bad it's not pure manganese dioxide.

[Sandro_ventania]

I tested manganese dioxide, but perhaps because it wasn't pure the result was disappointing, I wasn't able to test the powder, because the powder wasn't hard, it was a bit rubbery.

[2TM101]

If I could make GP that was 10% off I would use it, but mine was more like 50% off. There's so many undefined factors as to what exact temperature, how much water and how much cook time, that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what is wrong or how to fix it in a repeatable way.

Crimson powder is about 10% off, and I now use it in all of my CAS loads. I can go through a whole match without having to clean. For me Golden Powder has two uses, with Inline rifles where I am using a patched ball, and in smoothbore guns where I am firing clay balls. But I can use smaller amounts of other powders for the same effect, so it does not justify making it again.

Those tiny amounts of Charcoal and Iron Oxide, only 1.8% each, make a tremendous difference. After seeing and reading all that's been done on the subject, Golden Powder is mainly for training you to make Crimson Powder. And you can still use what you made while you were learning, provided you have a gun where you can just put more in.

[2TM101]

The crimson powder that I know does not contain charcoal, only 5% iron oxide. I think I got some manganese dioxide... I'll test it to see if it really is better than iron oxide. Too bad it's not pure manganese dioxide.

These are the formulas I use. In both cases you can use just the first two components (with an adjusted mix) and get a 1/3 reduction in power, but still a usable powder. But there is no reason to willingly do that if you have all of them.

Black Powder
74.6 Potassium Nitrate
13.5 Charcoal
11.9 Sulphur

Crimson Powder
64.3 Potassium Nitrate
32.1 Ascorbic Acid
1.8 Red Iron Oxide
1.8 Charcoal

[Nobade]

You mean Ascorbic acid, right? Vinegar wouldn't work too well.

[HamGunner]

I chrongraphed my three different mixtures of alternative powders today, along with Goex and my recent TP(Toilet Paper) powder. I cooked the Golden, but milled and pressed (corned) the others.

Golden (60%-40% Potassium Nitrate-Ascorbic Acid) had Very Good accuracy, even though it had a wide spread in velocity and slow velocity at that. I am not sure what to make of it just yet. Golden is much lighter than any of the others and the 22 gr. completely filled the chambers of my revolver cylinder, so that is why I used 22 gr. for these tests. Golden compacts into a fairly solid chunk when compressed, but seems to burn very clean. It has much less smoke than any of the others tested.

Crimson 64.3% Potassium Nitrate,32.1% Ascorbic Acid,1.8% Iron Oxide, and 1.8% charcoal) although faster than Golden, was also a bit slow with a fair amount of velocity spread, but was somewhat less bulky than Golden. It was also clean burning and gave what I will call just Good accuracy.

My Gray 61% Potassium Nitrate,31% Ascorbic Acid, 5% Manganese Dioxide, and 3% charcoal was faster yet with less velocity spread. It was clean burning and also gave just Good accuracy.

My TP charcoal black 75% Potassium Nitrate, 15% Charcoal, and 10% Sulfur was very strong and gave high velocity, but the charge was just too much for good accuracy. It gave a more scattered pattern rather than a decent group. I would say it only had Less than Fair accuracy. I did fire a final cylinder full of the TP powder after all the other tests were completed and I reduced the charge to 20 gr. This gave Extra Very Good accuracy and the velocity spread was much better. It performed right about the same as 22 gr. of Goex as far as velocity and deviation, although the Goex only gave Good accuracy.

I also fired a cylinder full of mixed up powder just for the fun of it. It was a mixture of 25% each of my TP, Golden, Crimson, and the Gray. Although the velocity was up there, it had a very wide Velocity Spread. It only gave Fair accuracy.

All tests were six shots each @20 yards. Charges were 3F size and weighed 22 gr. on a digital scale. Fired with Rem. #10 caps and fired in my Pietta 1851 Navy .36 cal. under an 82 gr. .380 ball. My very last cylinder full of my second try using my TP powder I used a reduced load of only 20 gr. This lesser load shot really swell and that has mostly been my go-to load in this revolver with my home made Black and I had already found a happy spot for it. So, even though I gave the accuracy that I got with 22 gr. of each of the powders, a load work up of each powder might give us quite a surprise.

Golden delivered an average of 515 fps., ES 187 fps., and SD 65 fps. Accuracy Very Good. All in a decent group with no flyers. 2 1/2" group.

Crimson delivered an average 772 fps, ES 106, and SD 43 fps. Accuracy 4" group.

Gray delivered an average 851 fps., ES 83 fps., and SD 31 fps. Accuracy 3 1/2" group.

Goex delivered an average 841 fps., ES 63 fps., and SD 23 fps. Accuracy 3" group.

TP Black gave an average 949 fps., ES 67 fps., and SD 27 fps. Accuracy less than Fair. Scattered with flyers.

TP Black with 20 gr. load ave. 830 fps., ES 58 fps,. and SD 25 fps. Accuracy Extra Very Good. Three in one hole and the others nearly touching. 1 1/2" group.

Mixture was ave. 823 fps., ES 132 fps., SD 46. Only Fair accuracy. Scattered 6" group.

Although accuracy was not the best for many of the tested powders, I am sure that one could reduce or increase the pressure levels until accuracy could be found for each type of powder, just as with my TP, which I had already tested extensively.

It was a really nice Feb. day for shooting with a high of 82 degrees, but windy. Unusual weather for Missouri.

Edit: Nipple removal required a bit of extra torque, but the rest of the revolver cleaned up easily. Perhaps a bit easier than normal. There was for sure less crud in the bore.

[LAGS]

This is great info.
I am still wondering how all these powders will do in muzzleloading rifles and single shot pistols.
Plus maybe flintlocks vs percussion rifles.
I am not trying to find a powder that will out perform my Homemade powder .
But just ones that might be good to go to in ML rifles if they maybe burn cleaner or more consistent.
I don’t shoot C&B pistols any more , nor I do not intend on loading cases with these style powders , unless we can not get Smokeless powder in the future.
But I want to thank all you guys that are doing these types of powders and the ones doing the testing.

[HamGunner]

While most of these (alternative) powders that I tested today seemed to smoke less and appeared to be cleaner burning, I did notice when cleaning my revolver this evening, that I had to put extra torque on the nipples to get them to break loose, even though I always put anti-seize grease on the threads. The chambers of the cylinder and the bore appeared to need about the normal cleaning procedure.

I am just playing with this stuff, but I do believe that I am very happy with my home made Black. I was doing quite well with Sassafras, but the TP seems even better. But who knows, might find a good use for some of this (alternative) powder someday.

[LAGS]

There are Tons of powder making options and mixes we can try.
One thing I would like to try is to make the cooked CIA powder.
Then grind it and press it into pucks to then corn it. That might also increase the density.
That is something I would post in the BP thread.
But I have seen comments in this thread about Corning some of these powders.

[Sandro_ventania]

I'm very happy to see everyone trying the powders! I just wanted to record that the option of using Golden powder and/or Crimson powder is not intended to be a more potent powder than Black powder, but to be another option with different characteristics, such as being cleaner and easily made in the home stove, without the need for a ball mill, a press, selecting and cooking wood to make charcoal, etc. For those who need a more powerful powder, it will be necessary to add part of a more powerful oxidizer. For muzzle loaders, the quantity is not a problem, if to equal a charge of 50 grains of BP I need to use 70 of GP, I still consider the GP more advantageous, as it is much easier to make, it is cleaner and less corrosive.

[deces]

What book are you fellows getting these alternative powder recipes from?

[2TM101]

You mean Ascorbic acid, right? Vinegar wouldn't work too well.

My error. I don't know how I go the name wrong like that, the acid I listed does in fact not even exist. So at least I don't have to worry about anyone following that formula.

[2TM101]

What book are you fellows getting these alternative powder recipes from?

Its mostly from sites that are for fireworks makers. There are dozens of chemical formulas, most of which are not adaptable to guns as they are very corrosive and/or literally explosives and not propellants. Only a select few are adaptable to firearms use. These sites are for projectiles fired from an iron tube you clean with a wire brush which then intentionally explode, so corrosion is not a concern.

I've come to the conclusion that only the four component Crimson Powder is of any use. The two component Golden Powder and the two component White Powder (Corn Starch) work, but are too weak to be used in anything other than single shot muzzleloaders where you can double the charge to make up for it. But if you are still curious, most of the data is here:

https://pyrosource.fandom.com/wiki/Pyro_Source_Wiki

[MUSTANG]

There was some question over the life of this thread as to the potential of the Golden Powder to attack the brass when used in Centerfire Ammunition; or ..... I test fired my last batch about two weeks ago (Post #233 and #237) and because I was off on other Winter Reloading efforts I let the cases sit for the last two weeks - unclaimed and untouched.

The cases I use for "Initial Experimenting" tend to be mixtures of case head stamps. I tend to sort head stamps into lots of 20 so they can be aggregated, boxed up, and used for "Same Case" load development or reloaded and boxed for long tern storage. The odd-ball cases get relegated to the rough experimenting role where consistency to foster accuracy is not the immediate goal.

This morning I retrieved them and looked at the inside of the necks:


click on picture to enlarge

The case necks and insides are coated with what I initially thought was corrosion of the brass; but is actually a layer of crud from the Powder Ignition. This extends to the internal case walls - not just the necks. If one enlarges the picture and looks closely; a the lifting and curling of the crud coating edges can be seen on a couple of the inside necks in the picture.

Not sure what if anything this means (Other than cleaning of the Brass cases is required inside and out); but thought it might be of interest to some.