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Thread: My homemade Golden powder!

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Aren’t priming compounds like H48 and F42 made from potassium chlorate and Sulfur ?
    Yes they are and you must be extremely careful while handling them.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Arenít priming compounds like H48 and F42 made from potassium chlorate and Sulfur ?
    H48 is Antimony Sulfate, Sulfur and Potassium Chlorate. It also explodes, not burns. There is very little of it in a primer or cap.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  3. #403
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    Thank you guys.
    Now I can see why you can’t use potassium chlorite to make BP to make the powder faster.
    When I made fireworks.
    I use to use the PC instead of Kn03 to boost the powder like in firecrackers
    Last edited by LAGS; 04-17-2024 at 02:18 PM.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Thank you guys. Now I can see why you canít use potassium chlorite to make BP to make the powder faster.
    Potassium Chlorate and Sulfur not only explode but are very friction sensitive. Its why H48 even works.

    But you can't make Gunpowder that way. They learned that as far back as 1794.

    I still love that one on the left. Everyone around Berthollet is dead (Over 1000 people) and he's just standing there totally unharmed wondering what happened.

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    Now you CAN use Potassium Perchlorate, but for 4 times the cost. Pyrodex contains it, so apparently there is some gain for using it.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro_ventania View Post
    I know Sannadex as a powder made from sugar and chlorate. It is quite hygroscopic, if you use starch, it becomes less hygroscopic.
    So starch and Sugar are essentially interchangeable in these compositions?

    I've seen Sannadex formulas using Nitrate, and ones using Chlorate. These are every different chemicals, someone is dangerously wrong. On the site where it said Nitrate, it also gave the formula for regular Black Powder as 75-25-5, so I tend to think they are wrong and you are right in this case. They also said you cook Sannadex dry. It looked like something out of Anarchists Cookbook - which intentionally had dangerously wrong formulas in it.

    Every reference to it I can find show it being used in centerfire cartridge rifles and getting around 2000+ FPS. If it is indeed Chlorate, and it seems to be, it is not safe to use in a black powder only firearm. But I'm guessing that won't matter to most of the readers here as you were not planning to use any of these that way anyhow.

    I have now seen SEVEN different formulas for Crimson powder, with three of them being on the same page. And disturbingly - all are called Crimson Powder.

    I now have a proven formula for Black Powder, a proven formula for Crimson Powder and a proven formula for H48. At this point I am going to stop experimenting and just watch.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TM101 View Post
    It was by TABLESPOON. Site I got it from was in Zimbabwe. I assumed it was Potassium Nitrate but it turned out to actually be Potassium Chlorate.

    I just got a whole lot of Potassium Perchlorate, but then a Chemist pointed out that It reacted slower than Potassium Nitrate and only produces 18% more oxygen by weight. So that was a waste. Chlorate is much better than either, but just how much seems to vary.

    And the gremlin is Sulfur. Not only do you have to keep it away from petroleum based bullet lubes, you get it anywhere near the Chlorate and your reloading room will blow up like a Meth lab.
    All manufacturers that I know of use perchlorate...they avoid chlorate because of its instability. Perchlorate is very good, there was no waste, use it and you will see the difference.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Thank you guys.
    Now I can see why you can’t use potassium chlorite to make BP to make the powder faster.
    When I made fireworks.
    I use to use the PC instead of Kn03 to boost the powder like in firecrackers
    I will tell you my experience. I didn't do BP with chlorate. I added 10% chlorate to the ready-made BP. And this increased the speed by 30%. But it's the kind of thing that... do what I say, but don't do what I do... lol

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TM101 View Post
    So starch and Sugar are essentially interchangeable in these compositions?

    I've seen Sannadex formulas using Nitrate, and ones using Chlorate. These are every different chemicals, someone is dangerously wrong. On the site where it said Nitrate, it also gave the formula for regular Black Powder as 75-25-5, so I tend to think they are wrong and you are right in this case. They also said you cook Sannadex dry. It looked like something out of Anarchists Cookbook - which intentionally had dangerously wrong formulas in it.

    Every reference to it I can find show it being used in centerfire cartridge rifles and getting around 2000+ FPS. If it is indeed Chlorate, and it seems to be, it is not safe to use in a black powder only firearm. But I'm guessing that won't matter to most of the readers here as you were not planning to use any of these that way anyhow.

    I have now seen SEVEN different formulas for Crimson powder, with three of them being on the same page. And disturbingly - all are called Crimson Powder.

    I now have a proven formula for Black Powder, a proven formula for Crimson Powder and a proven formula for H48. At this point I am going to stop experimenting and just watch.
    Sugar is better than starch, but with sugar, it becomes very hygroscopic. It can't be stored. You can use pure nitrate, pure chlorate (or perchlorate) or mix nitrate with chlorate.

  9. #409
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    Quanto mais clorato ou perclorato, mais forte serŠ o pů.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro_ventania View Post
    All manufacturers that I know of use perchlorate...they avoid chlorate because of its instability. Perchlorate is very good, there was no waste, use it and you will see the difference.
    I went to the bottom of the Sannadex rabbit hole, at least the best anyone can researching 10-15 year old information from South Africa. Lets just say we should forget about it.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro_ventania View Post
    Quanto mais clorato ou perclorato, mais forte serŠ o pů.

    Translation for those like myself who did not know what his posting meant:

    The more chlorate or perchlorate, the stronger the powder will be.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  12. #412
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    I'm sorry, this time the message was in my language. Thank you Mustang, for the translation.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Arenít priming compounds like H48 and F42 made from potassium chlorate and Sulfur ?
    Recipes I've seen advise adding a small amount of baking soda to neutralize the acid in the sulfur. That doesn't make it safe, but makes it more stable.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamGunner View Post
    Crimson 64.3% Potassium Nitrate,32.1% Ascorbic Acid,1.8% Iron Oxide, and 1.8% charcoal) although faster than Golden, was also a bit slow with a fair amount of velocity spread, but was somewhat less bulky than Golden. It was also clean burning and gave what I will call just Good accuracy.

    My Gray 61% Potassium Nitrate,31% Ascorbic Acid, 5% Manganese Dioxide, and 3% charcoal was faster yet with less velocity spread. It was clean burning and also gave just Good accuracy.

    Crimson delivered an average 772 fps, ES 106, and SD 43 fps. Accuracy 4" group.

    Gray delivered an average 851 fps., ES 83 fps., and SD 31 fps. Accuracy 3 1/2" group.
    Maybe its just me or I made a bad batch, but the manganese powder isn't working for me.

    In my .45 inline it failed to ignite multiple times - then finally did, moving the ball about 4" down the barrel.

    I loaded 25 rounds of .38 consisting of 1cc of 'Gray" with 2 grains of W244 on top of it. Not only wildly inaccurate, in FOUR of those the smokeless went off - and the Gray STILL didn't ignite. I got a pop and saw the bullet hit the dirt behind the target, but no appreciable smoke.

    After I got home I poured one of the 60 grain charge tubes on a paper plate and lit it. Took over three seconds to burn. Reminded me of when I tried to make Black Powder using activated charcoal. This stuff burns slowly and HOT, like I made low grade thermite.
    Last edited by 2TM101; 04-20-2024 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Manganese don't work
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  15. #415
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    Bump

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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TM101 View Post
    Maybe its just me or I made a bad batch, but the manganese powder isn't working for me.
    Did you mill and corn this or use the cooking method? I milled then corned/screened the (Gray) with the Manganese as I also did with the Crimson with the Iron Oxide.

    I found no difficulty in ignition. I used one of my .36 cal. revolvers for the tests and used my home made caps for the ignition.
    73 de n0ubx, Rick
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  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamGunner View Post
    Did you mill and corn this or use the cooking method? I milled then corned/screened the (Gray) with the Manganese as I also did with the Crimson with the Iron Oxide. I found no difficulty in ignition. I used one of my .36 cal. revolvers for the tests and used my home made caps for the ignition.
    I clearly did something wrong, there is no other explanation for the results being this different.

    In another unexplained observation, the manganese powder, and my starch powder, are remaining free flowing granules, but my crimson powder is "Agglomerating" (new word for me). Others have said the golden powder also does this.

    Easy enough to take a spoon and break it back up - at least when its in a tub. But if that is happening inside cartridges loaded with it I can't fix it or even know its happening. So now its pretty much limited to muzzleloader use. MIGHT be moisture related but I have no way to dry it out once its already powder.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  18. #418
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    Yes... some mixtures become more or less hygroscopic, dry powder has to be well packed, preferably with silica. I always prefer to make small batches to use within a month at most. I still have a leftover batch of Golden powder that is over a year old, stored in a plastic container, it is still grainy, not as much as when I made it, but perfectly usable. I believe that loaded brass cases should still keep the powder intact.

  19. #419
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    I found a place that makes re-usable silica gel packs. News to me that this even existed, apparently you pop them in a microwave on defrost for about 10 minutes and it steams all the collected moisture out of them.

    I had originally put my homemade powder in old smokeless powder cans. Black powder was fine, but some of these alternates clumped up ("Agglomerated"). Not badly, hit the can a few times and it went back to powder. I poured it all out into open top cottage cheese tubs and it did it again. When my Silica Gel packs come I'll put several in each tub and seal them up and see if that works.

    I had loaded a number of duplex .38 rounds and in 4 out of 22 rounds the homemade powder did not ignite even when the smokeless powder did - and it was on top. Just got a pop, about 200 fps and no significant smoke. What I did see may have just been the powder blowing out of the gun.

    I know how to make improvised munitions - seriously potent ones actually. But learning how to make this low powered stuff that can make a black powder gun work without damaging it is an art form I'm still mastering.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, 44 Special 44 Magnum. .223, 7.62x39, 7.62 x 54R, .30-06, 45-70, .32, .36, .44. .45. .50. .54. .58 and .60 round ball and various minies. And .375 heel crimped conical for those .36 conversions . KB6MRP on Discord

  20. #420
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    With all the chatter about moisture and these powders being fairly hygroscopic, I checked all the leftovers from my batches that I had made right at 2 months ago. Stored in plastic medicine bottles for the most part and various other plastic bottles with sealing tops, I really do not see anything indicating that they have taken up any moisture to speak of. Even the fines are still plenty dry enough to pour through a fine funnel.

    I checked on the Golden, Crimson, and the Gray w/Magnesium and all are still plenty loose & dry. They are stored in my basement reloading/hobby room where it is climate controlled, but there are plenty of days where the humidity has exceeded 60% or more. Sealed containers seem to be plenty good enough for me.
    Last edited by HamGunner; 04-25-2024 at 10:05 PM.
    73 de n0ubx, Rick
    NRA Benefactor Life Member/VFW Life Member

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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