My homemade Golden powder!

[perotter]

What is the advantage of this powder over the tried and true KNO3 and table sugar? Cost is about $3 a pound.

[Sandro_ventania]

https://youtu.be/CMTMno1rUMY?si=246pAJJv-GrvzcbQ

Burn test, GP vs CP vs BP.

My Golden powder burns as fast as your Crimson powder. I find this very curious... perhaps because my ascorbic acid is technical level (100% pure) and I purify my nitrate.

[Sandro_ventania]

What is the advantage of this powder over the tried and true KNO3 and table sugar? Cost is about $3 a pound.

I've never put knsu in a gun, but from outdoor burn tests, it burned very slow. We have a friend here who uses chlorate with sugar, so it's much better.

[Sandro_ventania]

I would not shoot those. There was a test done years ago when people were using a filler (IIRC grits or cornmeal) over smokeless powder. As the rounds aged, the filler solidified and when pressure tested the rounds had a very significant increase in pressure. This was in .45 LC cases IIRC.

If I was playing with something like this I would use a Mossin and a long string. There are too many unknowns at this point wrt to how this powder "ages" and reacts to humidity.

I've had GP in storage for 1 year... and it's still good, just darker.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Buckhorn 209 is a nitrocellulose based powder that is for blackpowder guns. Seems to sell and work well. The sds lists that it is 83% NC. What I don't know is what percent N the nitrocellulose is. 11.2%? 12.4%?

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/2022-blackhorn-209-sds/

That stuff is the most expensive powder you can buy. $80/lb retail but people were paying $180/lb on ebay to run their super fancy high end in-lines for hunting season. If we could make that cheap it would be a game changer, but I doubt it. I think it's extruded. I do have a metal frosting dispenser that I intended to try and make extruded pellets with.

[Sandro_ventania]

That stuff is the most expensive powder you can buy. $80/lb retail but people were paying $180/lb on ebay to run their super fancy high end in-lines for hunting season. If we could make that cheap it would be a game changer, but I doubt it. I think it's extruded. I do have a metal frosting dispenser that I intended to try and make extruded pellets with.

But what's the point? Are we still talking about muzzleloaders? Well, if we are, I believe that a 500-grain projectile at 1700 feet/sec can take down even the bison in America! Is nitrocellulose really that important? To make your special powder cheaper, take 30% smokeless powder, dissolve it in acetone, it will turn into gelatin, add 70% GP or CP very finely and pass the mass through your extruder. When the acetone dries, it's ready...work the load as if it were smokeless and move up as needed.

[barrabruce]

I pulled the compacted fine G.P. powder out of my 30-30 cases.
Scraped them out.
Since I never clean my cases there are remainders of many firings left.
I mixed the lot up in a little water to make it clump up a little.
Let it dry and mixed in the rest of my golden powder.
It looks more like "burning dirt" with a little sand mixed in.
Cases were filled to the top then dry wrapped pp’ed bullets seated.
I did wrap both ways with and against the rifling.
Patched to fill the fired case as is.
Trying to keep it all simple as it should be.
See what happens next range trip.

Keep up the good work.
Next thing you know I’ll have a muzzle loader or sum such black powder shooting thing.
Ha

[Sandro_ventania]

I pulled the compacted fine G.P. powder out of my 30-30 cases.
Scraped them out.
Since I never clean my cases there are remainders of many firings left.
I mixed the lot up in a little water to make it clump up a little.
Let it dry and mixed in the rest of my golden powder.
It looks more like "burning dirt" with a little sand mixed in.
Cases were filled to the top then dry wrapped pp’ed bullets seated.
I did wrap both ways with and against the rifling.
Patched to fill the fired case as is.
Trying to keep it all simple as it should be.
See what happens next range trip.

Keep up the good work.
Next thing you know I’ll have a muzzle loader or sum such black powder shooting thing.
Ha

Be sure to tell us the results of shooting the 30-30 loaded with GP. Your powder is really a mixed salad. Whatever the result, I think it could improve with a more carefully cooked powder.

[dverna]

I pulled the compacted fine G.P. powder out of my 30-30 cases.
Scraped them out.
Since I never clean my cases there are remainders of many firings left.
I mixed the lot up in a little water to make it clump up a little.
Let it dry and mixed in the rest of my golden powder.
It looks more like "burning dirt" with a little sand mixed in.
Cases were filled to the top then dry wrapped pp’ed bullets seated.
I did wrap both ways with and against the rifling.
Patched to fill the fired case as is.
Trying to keep it all simple as it should be.
See what happens next range trip.

Keep up the good work.
Next thing you know I’ll have a muzzle loader or sum such black powder shooting thing.
Ha

IMO you made the right decision not to fire those rounds. The reward was minimal even if the risk was minimal. Experimentation on the "cutting edge" can cause bleeding.

Folks storing ammunition with an experimental powder for more than a few weeks would be wise to pull a bullet from a round before using that lot of reloads. Making a dozen rounds and inspecting one a month seems prudent. Something small like a .223 would not require much powder.

The other approach is to produce five rounds with compacted powder and have them tested. But I cannot find a lab that does that kind or work. HP White used to do it IIRC but they are no longer in business.

[perotter]

I've never put knsu in a gun, but from outdoor burn tests, it burned very slow. We have a friend here who uses chlorate with sugar, so it's much better.

I've only used regular knsu powder in cartridge guns. Burn rate is about percent in a full sized rifle, about 15 fps slower than listed fps for original bp loads. A friend of mine used it in his muzzle loader and it worked fine in inline ones but didn't fire reliably in conventional rifles.

So can I assume that golden powder works well in both types of fine in both types of muzzle loaders?

I've never been big on muzzle loaders, but did buy my first a couple of weeks ago. Was thinking of converting it to a side slapper so that knsu works, but I don't rule out making a different powder.

[Sandro_ventania]

IMO you made the right decision not to fire those rounds. The reward was minimal even if the risk was minimal. Experimentation on the "cutting edge" can cause bleeding.

Folks storing ammunition with an experimental powder for more than a few weeks would be wise to pull a bullet from a round before using that lot of reloads. Making a dozen rounds and inspecting one a month seems prudent. Something small like a .223 would not require much powder.

The other approach is to produce five rounds with compacted powder and have them tested. But I cannot find a lab that does that kind or work. HP White used to do it IIRC but they are no longer in business.

DVerna, Golden powder is not a new thing as many may think. Many companies make or have made GP and sold it under other names. As I remember now the powder APP (America Pioneer Powder) is GP. There are others too. Here it was just explained how it is done... and how easy it is for everyone to do it. See this website.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/faq.html

[Sandro_ventania]

I've only used regular knsu powder in cartridge guns. Burn rate is about percent in a full sized rifle, about 15 fps slower than listed fps for original bp loads. A friend of mine used it in his muzzle loader and it worked fine in inline ones but didn't fire reliably in conventional rifles.

So can I assume that golden powder works well in both types of fine in both types of muzzle loaders?

I've never been big on muzzle loaders, but did buy my first a couple of weeks ago. Was thinking of converting it to a side slapper so that knsu works, but I don't rule out making a different powder.

certainly the GP has easier ignition than the knsu. Crimson powder is even better, I believe it even works on flint. Doing some research, I discovered that using manganese dioxide instead of iron oxide increases the power of the powder by 30%. I don't have access, so I can't test... whoever has access, here's a tip.

[deces]

Has anyone tried extruding it into stick powder with something like this?

[LAGS]

I have used one of those to make my BP.
I ran the damp powder thru that tool.
Then when it dried out , I crushed it up a bit and then screened it for the sizes I needed.
But right out of that ricer it made great Cannon Powder.

[owejia]

certainly the GP has easier ignition than the knsu. Crimson powder is even better, I believe it even works on flint. Doing some research, I discovered that using manganese dioxide instead of iron oxide increases the power of the powder by 30%. I don't have access, so I can't test... whoever has access, here's a tip.

This manganese dioxide is available from Amazon, 99% pure regants grade/fine pwder for $32.99/ 1 lb bottle. What is the percentage of the mix in the GP?

[dverna]

DVerna, Golden powder is not a new thing as many may think. Many companies make or have made GP and sold it under other names. As I remember now the powder APP (America Pioneer Powder) is GP. There are others too. Here it was just explained how it is done... and how easy it is for everyone to do it. See this website.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/faq.html

Thanks for posting that information. My concern was the compaction barrabruce saw in those .30/30 loads. That is a red flag for me. If that is normal and not a safety issue, I gave bad advice. My only experience is with smokeless powder so I may be overly cautious.

[barrabruce]

Hey Don thank-you for speaking up saving my skin if it is right /wrong.

I know 5/8ths of **** all about black powder.
The people I mostly know who have used it I wouldn’t take their advice.
There is one fella who knows heaps and has a collection of Fine shooting fusels and is a bit of a legend in these parts, but I may only see him once or twice a year now.

All good this end.
No harm done..
Bruce

[Nobade]

I don't think the fine compacted powder would bother anything in a 30-30, based on what I saw. I loaded mine completely to the top and crushed it with a bullet and every one worked fine. Accuracy was good, primers didn't show any pressure signs and extraction was easy. I don't think this powder can generate pressures as high as a full black powder load, and certainly nowhere near a regular smokeless load. It seems quite safe in cartridge firearms that give you limited case capacity. I do wish I still had my 416 Taylor, I would like to try it in a bigger rifle but 45-70 is as big as I have any more.

[dverna]

Bruce,

This is what raised the red flag:

"The powder is compacted hard and felt like a solid compressed flour."

Being ignorant about this type of propellent and a "Safety Nazi", I erred on the side of caution.

I do not even shoot BP so know nothing about how a compressed charge should look. With smokeless, the powder is still a powder and not compacted into a hard/solid mass.

I am following this thread as I find stuff like this interesting. I have no need to make a propellent, but it would be valuable skill if/when things go south. A bit like remanufacturing primers. Not worth my time if I can buy what I need. But what if that changes?

[MUSTANG]

Has anyone tried extruding it into stick powder with something like this?

I tried this one; I was unsuccessful 1st try. Powder was too dry. Will need a powder that is at correct dough consistency to use.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKRSL1R8...roduct_details