Lightweight .45/70 boolit choice ?

[rockrat]

Been playing with a few lighter weight boolits in the 45-70. NOE copy of the 457191 has a large meplat for slapping down the deer and hogs and shoots very well out of my #1 @100yds. I have a 330gr from Arsenal that shoots as well, but smaller meplat and a 300 gr Ranchdog plain base that is about 315gr and also shoots well in my Ruger. I load the same load with all three boolits, the same load JDL posts above, using Unique. Really smacks our 100yd gongs.

[Sgt H]

Bob about 12 grains of Unique under a 340 boolit should get you close to 1100, maybe a bit less with your short barrel. I shoot this load in my Sharps and 1886 Browning for gongs out to several hundred yards. Recoil is next to nothing but those rifles weigh about 12# and 10# respectively.

[BobT]

Bob about 12 grains of Unique under a 340 boolit should get you close to 1100, maybe a bit less with your short barrel. I shoot this load in my Sharps and 1886 Browning for gongs out to several hundred yards. Recoil is next to nothing but those rifles weigh about 12# and 10# respectively.

I was planning to start with 12 grains of Unique, my Contender pistol shot that load pretty well. I have some Trailboss and plan to try that too although I don't have much hope for resupply at this point.

[2TM101]

I got the 160 gr lee mold in yesterday but its a .452, so obviously powdercoat that one. I don't know how much you gain from powdercoating, I may need to do it twice.

[brstevns]

I got the 160 gr lee mold in yesterday but its a .452, so obviously powdercoat that one. I don't know how much you gain from powdercoating, I may need to do it twice.

Like to hear how this bullet works out.

[StrawHat]

BobT,

Have you considered using blackpowder? The Army kept getting complaint about how hard the rifle load recoiled in the carbine so they eventually reduced the powder charge to 55 grains and seated the bullet down on the powder. You could do the same thing with a 300 grain boolit or the Gould boolit (my favorite when I used the small bore -70).

You could even reduce the powder charge more. Me, I prefer penetration to expansion. Heck, you are starting with a 46 caliber boolit. Choose a boolit with a large flat meplat and you never recover them.

Kevin

[BobT]

BobT,

Have you considered using blackpowder? The Army kept getting complaint about how hard the rifle load recoiled in the carbine so they eventually reduced the powder charge to 55 grains and seated the bullet down on the powder. You could do the same thing with a 300 grain boolit or the Gould boolit (my favorite when I used the small bore -70).

You could even reduce the powder charge more. Me, I prefer penetration to expansion. Heck, you are starting with a 46 caliber boolit. Choose a boolit with a large flat meplat and you never recover them.

Kevin

I never really considered black powder, I may eventually try some, likely a duplex load to try to keep the fouling to a minimum. For the time being I'm going to concentrate on smokeless powder, mostly Unique since I have a pretty good supply of it. I did come up with some 300 grain flat point commercial cast boolits the other day also and I'll try them as well as the Lee 340 and the Gould.

[Baltimoreed]

The lightest I ever loaded for my .45-70s and 45-60 was the 292 gr lead, mold #457191.

[StrawHat]

If you really want a lightweight boolit, consider the Lyman 457130. The collar button bullet, about 150 grains. Not much heavier than a round ball. Not sure if Lyman still offers it. There was also a Group Buy mold for it.

Kevin

[longbow]

There is a lot of info here:

https://1895gunner.com/loaddata/table%2045-70.html

Stick with Trapdoor data and the loads will be light. He lists boolit weights down to 250 gr. Oddly he doesn't show the Unique load with is very popular but you can find that here:

https://www.nzha.co.nz/wp-content/up...08/Lyman44.pdf

Page 98 for Trapdoor Springfield load data.

Longbow

[Digital Dan]

At the risk of sounding sacrilegious, you might try a round ball. I shoot a few from a .30 cal CF wildcat I put together. .310 diameter, sized to .309", wee bit of SPG lube smeared on the ball. No leading, top velocity 1,400 fps with 18 gr of 3fg. Lower velocity with smokeless powder worked well. 25 yard groups hovered around 3/4-1" for five shots.

https://i.imgur.com/Sftn5LR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rZgILkb.jpg

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/round-balls#!/

[BobT]

At the risk of sounding sacrilegious, you might try a round ball. I shoot a few from a .30 cal CF wildcat I put together. .310 diameter, sized to .309", wee bit of SPG lube smeared on the ball. No leading, top velocity 1,400 fps with 18 gr of 3fg. Lower velocity with smokeless powder worked well. 25 yard groups hovered around 3/4-1" for five shots.

https://i.imgur.com/Sftn5LR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rZgILkb.jpg

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/round-balls#!/

The round ball is not something I had considered either but I can't see where it would hurt to try it.

[dlbarr]

I would use a 350 gr HP Lyman/Gould mold, made out of softer lead. Use a minimum Unique load and it will get the job done, somewhere between 13-15 grs of powder should suffice. Kills like lightning. About the softest recoil i can remember, about 1/3 or less that of factory loads.

In his book, 40 Years with the 45-70, Paul Matthews describes his "practice load" as a 300gr FN pushed by 16gr of Unique. I've adopted this as my so-called practice load as well and have often thought it easily sufficient for deer or hogs. I've no doubt koger's load here is a good one also. BTW, I shoot these loads out of my NEF HandiRifle 20" barrel which is probably some heavier than your gun, but not by much. Recoil is nothing harsh at all.

[BobT]

In his book, 40 Years with the 45-70, Paul Matthews describes his "practice load" as a 300gr FN pushed by 16gr of Unique. I've adopted this as my so-called practice load as well and have often thought it easily sufficient for deer or hogs. I've no doubt koger's load here is a good one also. BTW, I shoot these loads out of my NEF HandiRifle 20" barrel which is probably some heavier than your gun, but not by much. Recoil is nothing harsh at all.

Thanks! I'll give that one a try also.

[glaciers]

I just put together a little bitty .45/70 carbine. It's a Thompson Center Contender Super 16 and it weighs just under 4 lbs. 6 oz. so saying it's a handfull with factory ammo is an understatement! I would like to deer hunt with this little gun and am looking for recommendations on a good boolit, ranges will be fairly short and I'll add a scope so it will probably pick up another pound or so. I was thinking about a soft cast Gould HP but any other recommendations are welcome.

Curiously, I did a search for .45/70 and came up with "sorry no matches" ! I know there are tons of .45/70 posts on here why don't they show up on a search?

Thanks in advance!

I have been working on a 45-70 light bullet project for my Marlin, on going I should say, but might be a couple suggestions for you.
First off I wanted to try round ball loads but my mold drops .457 diameter balls which is to small. So I powered coated them with 2 coats to bring the diameter up. Jury’s still out on this. I do have a .495 diameter RB mold but they would need to be run through a sizer.
But of more interest to me is a light weight bullet that I could load and function in the tubular magazine. So I picked up a Colar button mold from NOE which drops a 181 grain bullet at .460 diameter. Good for plinking in my book but not for hunting.
Next I ordered an Arsenal mold I requested that the diameter be increased from.453 to .459. When powder coated and sized I would have a .460 diameter bullet weighing 235 grains. I was looking for a light weight bullet that would be easy in the recoil department and still have the potential for short range hunting.
Next was the Lyman 457 191 weighing in at 302 grains and .459 diameter, powder coating and sizing to .460.

None of these have a crimp ring so neck tension was very important plus I use a LEE FCD for a light crimp. Go easy on the crimp so you don’t deform the bullet.
I’ve loaded the Lyman bullet to 1850 fps before but I was looking for a lighter loading. So far I’ve only loaded the collar button to about 900 fps, and in the future I will push it to maybe 1100 fps. Want to stay sub sonic with this one, more for the fun department.
The Arsenal 235 I feel could be used up to 1400 fps, so far I’ve only loaded it to about 1200 fps. I think that at 1400 this would work just fine for deer, hogs or black bear.
The Lyman 300 I’ve also stopped at this point at 1200 fps, further testing to achieve 1400 to 1500 fps will make this a serious game bullet with reasonable recoil.
More testing a little later this summer.

Yellow is the collar button, clear is the Arsenal 235, and the brown/copper is the Lyman 457 191

[Larry Gibson]

I've probably already mentioned this but I mostly shoot a Rapine 460-250-FN [drops at 270 g=/-] out of my 45-70s [3 TDs and a Siamese Mauser] over 8 gr of Bullseye. They run 1050 fps with excellent accuracy. Accurate moulds makes a copy of that bullet.

[pls1911]

"Light" is a relative term when discussing the 45/70.
The RCBS 300 or Ranch Dog/ NOE equivalent will serve you well for just about anything short of elk.

[Rapier]

If you are going to shoot paper, the 300 grain bullet is plenty, to kll that dangerous 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. It is amazing how effective a 300 grain 458 bullet actually is, compared to the magazine stories about needing a 500. Try the 300s, it will save you a lot of wear and tear on your shoulder. If you can not find the desired mould, which is quite common, as the light 458 bullet moulds constantly stay out of stock or out of production, you might try the 300 JHP for load development they will at least get you close.

[BobT]

Thanks for all the input so far! I had to put this project on the back burner for a little while but I'm ready to get back on it and plan to get something loaded up and start testing within the next few weeks. Please keep it coming!